TAMPA, Fla. - If you were looking for Tennessee's Big Ten counterpart in the late 1990s, Michigan stood out like a 100,000-seat stadium.
The Wolverines won a national title in 1997. The Vols won one in 1998.
Each program had a solid, but not flashy head coach with a great winning percentage (Lloyd Carr of Michigan and Phillip Fulmer of Tennessee). Each program also had a Heisman Trophy candidate (Michigan's Charles Woodson, the winner; UT's Peyton Manning, the runner-up).
The Wolverines signed top-10 recruiting classes and had a huge presence on NFL draft day. So did the Vols.
Both programs had great tradition. And both had 100,000-plus-seat stadiums that set them apart from most of college football.
The programs are still distinguished by their monstrous stadiums. But the UT-Michigan comparison has become outdated in the new millennium. I realized as much while studying Wisconsin, UT's opponent in Tuesday's Outback Bowl.
UT has become the Wisconsin of the SEC. In fact, the programs are so similar, it would be appropriate - if it weren't so warm down here - to dress up Smokey in a Badger costume for the bowl game.
Let's start the comparison with what's most important - graduation rates. Just kidding. I mean the won-loss record.
In the last 10 years, UT is 92-34 and Wisconsin is 90-36.
The teams also are similar in their conference and national status. They're second-tier programs in their respective leagues but have won plenty of games and consistently finished in the Top 25.
The Badgers won their last Big Ten championship in 1999. The Vols won their last SEC title in 1998.
The Badgers and Vols have finished in the Associated Press Top 25 in six of the last nine years. Both have one top-10 finish this decade.
Each program played in its last BCS bowl in January of 2000. Each has had one losing season in the last 10 years (Wisconsin was 5-7 in 2001; UT was 5-6 in 2005).
The coaches also have something significant in common, though you couldn't tell it by their experience.
Fulmer is the dean of SEC coaches, and Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema, who is only 36, is a second-year head coach.
Fulmer was an offensive coordinator at UT prior to succeeding Johnny Majors as head coach after the 1992 season. Bielema was a defensive coordinator at Wisconsin before succeeding Barry Alvarez as head coach.
Both Fulmer and Bielema took over programs that were already successful and improved them right away.
The Vols went from 9-3 in Majors' last year to 10-2 in Fulmer's first year. The Badgers went from 10-3 in Alvarez's last year to 12-1 in Bielema's first year.
The current teams also have similarities.
Each was unbeaten at home, and each suffered two one-sided losses on the road.
The Vols lost to Florida and Alabama by a total of 63 points; the Badgers lost to Penn State and Ohio State by 52 points, although the Ohio State game was close until the last quarter.
Both have been better on offense than defense. Both have lost two starting cornerbacks to injury.
The teams are close on the scales, too. UT's starting offensive line averages 309 pounds per man. Wisconsin's averages 310.
Despite all the similarities, these look-alike programs often look quite different on bowl day.
Wisconsin has won six of its last eight bowl games. UT has lost five of its last seven.
So UT's goal for Tuesday should be obvious: Become more like its Big Ten twin on bowl day.
Sports editor John Adams may be reached at 865-342-6284 or adamsj@knews.com.
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Comments » 59
pdhuff#552644 writes:
Boy, Adams, get ready. "Second tier programs in their leagues". To the bunkers, here they come. Turn off your phone. Good luck, son!
jobrando#216494 writes:
One one think this poor VOL record reflects the coaches preparation. Maybe 2 much party and not enough motivating
gohawks1 writes:
Oh, brother - this article pretty much says it all, doesn't it?
gohawks1 writes:
I heard the D-backs are gonna be moved up to within 9 yards of the line-of-scrimmage on third and one. Is this true?
Bigger_Al writes:
John is forgetting how much easier life is in the Big Televen vs. the SEC. (He only needs to read a couple of his recent musings to remind himself of this.) That has more to do with Ohio State showing up as a BCS contender every year than anything Jim Tressel is doing. The SEC has the best coaches and the most talent compared to any conference in America. Plus, the Vols actually play premiere non-conference games every season, and I don't remember seeing Bucky the Badger on the sidelines in any headline non-Conference match-up.
But, Barry Alvarez really elevated Wisconsin into a very solid program and a contender in any game they played.
Those are pretty decent records. I wonder how Michigan fared. And, I know I watched us beat their a$$e$ in Orlando in our head-to-head matchup...
Bigger_Al writes:
Also interesting that Adams compares the programs over a 10 year period, then he compares Fulmer to the new guy, who was there 2 of those 10 years, as opposed to Alvarez, who was there for 8 of the 10 years and built the current team.
Bill Battle was pretty solid in his first two years too (21-3, look out Bear Bryant!).
FLVol writes:
John...I agree with your assessment except you forgot one important fact. Wisconsin plays in the Big 10 and they rarely schedule good teams out of conference. You can't possibly compare their records with one another. Tennessee has won 5 SEC East Championships as well as 2 overall championships in 1997 and 1998 against much superior competition. Wisconsin can never beat the likes of Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State consistently. Tennessee has beaten the Georgias, the Alabamas, the LSU's and even Florida some in the 2000's.
pdhuff#552644 writes:
grvol - 15 yard "bomb". We don't have a play such as that. Get real. A 15 yard bomb is pass for 4 yds,then run for 11. This is a rumor. Our bombs are WR reverses then throw. Twice. Same year.
nicksjuzunk#646117 writes:
Good article but will criticized on the point of Big Ten versus SEC play. Anybody want to dig out the strength of schedule for these teams over that time period?
eefor10c writes:
Don't you wish you could be a second tier writer Adams. That would be about nine tiers above where your are at this time. Please tell me you are picking Wisconsin to beat the Vols.
CoverOrange writes:
Anybody ever hear of the similarities between the assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy? Stuff like they both had VPs named Johnson. One assassin ran from a theater to a library, the other ran from a library to a theater. Yeah, look hard enough you can find similarities between any two people or in this instance, programs. Nice work John, you actually did research. By opening a sports almanac.
Pullingguard writes:
Dont be critical of John for telling the truth. UT is a second tier team in the SEC. They are not the Florida, LSU, Georgia, or Auburn year in and year out. They fall with the second groupers... And it's all happened within the last 5 years, Fulmer has let it slip away... Once UT was known and mentioned as among the top college football teams, now they are seldom mentioned. You measure the college teams by BCS bowls, how many has UT been to in last 5/6 years... You tell em Johnny Adams..
TommyJack writes:
Pullingguard is on the mark. The faithful won't get it until we're 2-10. Stay the course. 2 dozen glazed to go.
creepykev#228270 writes:
Would you rather he rehashes stats or gives us a lame attempt at humor. Not much to choose from is it?
pdhuff#552644 writes:
sjt18 - no purpose other than to goad.
TdTn - we haven't been able to pull of a 30+ player disqualification pre-bowl yet. Could we attend a seminar on this with Bowden?
TommyJack- You have information the "Ites" will get it at 2-10? Pls explain this revelation. Currently nothing seens to register. Teflon Phil leads well, lemmings with their little "T" sweaters follow. They have that right, they've earned it. Go Vols.
SmackDaddies writes:
Why should the Badgers beat up on the SEC during the regular season?
We leave that for the bowls
2006 - Auburn
2007 - Arkansas
2008 - ?
lnbadger320 writes:
lost 5 of 7 bowls. why is there not more of an outcry by the administration concerning this. this is pathetic. with all the distractions, i have a feeling it's going to be 6 of 8 now.
seaplane#216536 writes:
After watching last night's game, I think we need to go after the Texas offensive coordinator. His innovative, wide-open play calling made ASU look like a Division III team. He'd probably want the moon to go from UT to UT. Maybe we could offer him a Smokey Mountain.
eduardo writes:
After all is said and done and we have lost 6 coaches, why doesn't F$$$lmer just go ahead and step down. People it's not gonna be any better next year. Whomever he hires as oc, he's not gonna let go of the reigns like he did Cuttie. Just go on F$$$lmer all the way to Jackson Hole.
TommyJack writes:
why36knot will not be happy until there is no press....just the pablum released by the athletics dept...sweet, gooey, glazed, spin. Stay the course. Mediocity is ok at TN.
pdhuff#552644 writes:
grvol 8:23 -add Penn St. You cannot forget JoPa. Ck out their last few excellant years like FSU and Tenn. We'll be in the Music City next year at this rate. Beat the Badgers. Save the Phil!
Colliervol writes:
Inabadger, that's a good question about why there isn't more of an outcry about bowl records. But I think the answer lies in the fact that schools don't put as much emphasis on the results anymore. (Unless it's the national championship game of course.) They only care if they make it to the bowl game so that they get the extra 30 days of practice. I think that means more to many schools than a bowl trophy in a meaningless bowl game. That 30 days of practice allows them to look at the less experienced players who are going to play bigger roles next season.
That's why I don't put a lot of stock in bowl game results. You never know which team is really excited to be there and which one isn't. Or which one has prepared seriously for the game or just used the extra time as extended spring practice.
waterskier3#226480 writes:
stats tell the story folks... regardless of who we think we are... our record is average at best and if you really want to look at it we're below average considering we've lost 6 of 8 bowl games to teams outside the sec..... if we do have better talent in the sec and on tn then why can't we beat out of conf teams on bowl day?????
hint- fat phil.........fat phil........ fat phil
now his best recruiters are leaving look out... adkin will be named OC and we'll have more inbreeding between fulmer, chavis and adkins..... man doesn't those three get the recruits fired up...........
TommyJack writes:
waterskier: You loser/hater, naysaying, doom & gloomer. I agree with your post. The downward slide continues. Stay the course.
SpringCityVol writes:
Nice job Adams, if I were a Badger I would be mad as hell after reading this libel. Of course the upside is that Coach Bielema might be so troubled from his comparison to Fulplate that he shoots himself in the head and the team forfeits the game, but it's always iffy when you pin your hopes to a suicide...GO Vols!
TommyJack writes:
SpringCityVol: Coach Fulplate. I love it. lol
agentorange writes:
doom and gloom. doom and gloom. all day everyday. BORING.
thesavageorange writes:
waterskier3 :I have never been a CPF basher, but if he hires Adkins as OC, I will throw in the towel , and become a so called naysayer.Mark it down.
pdhuff#552644 writes:
agentorange- What possibly could have turned these good Vol fans into doom and gloom realistas? Happy New Year.
gohawks1 writes:
Gotta agree with you, thesavageorange. I'm not anti-Adkins, but I just think we need a fresh outlook with a new offensive strategy.
Colliervol writes:
I agree with you agentorange. Every article degenerates into "the-sky-is-falling" or "mine-is-bigger-than-yours" or a Fulmer bashing session by the RTH's. Seems that very few have anything new or pertinent to discuss and it is getting ridiculously boring. And if someone does have a point to discuss, they just get drowned out by drivel-spewing goofs (on both sides of the argument) who couldn't put an intelligent argument together if they had help.
Almost not worth the time reading the posts as it seems that most of the intelligent posters have moved to the sidelines. (I'm obviously not as intelligent since I've tried to stick it out but I'm leaning toward joining them.) Because this has become a huge waste of time unless the KNS decides to clean up some of the mess that they are allowing on here. And they are allowing it in obvious contradiction to their stated "Comments" policy (off topic, defamatory, abusive, and threatening).
Sad what this site has become but I guess that's life. Everybody wants to dwell on the negative.
Ralph_Crampton writes:
THE VOLS GOTTA WIN THIS BOWL GAME.
Colliervol writes:
Yep, that's the just the intelligent response I was expecting. Thanks for making my point.
DarthVol writes:
TD: Collier says *both sides* of the argument. And he's absolutely right. No one has anything new to say or a point to make anymore. Most seem content to fire insults at each other and the coaches. And those that are pro-fulmer are just as bad. If you're not in Fulmers corner (which I'm not) then you are a *naysayer* or a member of the *lotm*. gmafb.
At this point there are only about 7 posters that I care to read. And I rarely agree with any of them. But at least they can make a point without reverting back to the juvenile stuff that make up about 90% of what's being said around here lately.
thesavageorange writes:
IPOrange :Agree 100%.I don't call names , and bash, but we need a new outlook.This could be a great thing if CPF does the right thing.If he didn't hire a Asst HC(Troop) then I really don't see how he could hire a regular position coach as OC.If he does though I might start sounding like 12 beers or whatever his name is.He also needs to look at some coaches w/ ties to FL & maybe Texas to help get some of those kids on the hill.Troop was good in LA , and now he's gone, so we need some ins to these FB rich states.PLEASE LET US WIN THIS GAME!
thesavageorange writes:
I would actually never go as far as acting like that guy , but I would be very dissapointed.
Colliervol writes:
Thanks Darth. Unfortunately, that will be lost on him and others. You can expect another witty insult.
And you are right, there really are about 7 posters (and that may be generous) that bring pertinent comment to the table. The rest is just insult du jour or some mindless diatribe about the program. And that's where I think this thing has gone to heck in a handbasket. (You were on the pay site and you know exactly what I'm talking about. It was a lot more interesting then.)
My position on Fulmer is well known but ole TD's recall powers are a little suspect so I have to remind him. Everybody knows this program has underperformed (Duh, like that's a news flash). But he deserved the chance to get this program back to where it was and progress has been made since 2005 whether some like it or not. BUT IT AIN'T WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE. (how much clearer than that do I need to be?) Whether he accomplishes that or not is up to him. Now if that's not clear enough for some folks, I can't help them. So please get it straight if you're going to tell folks what I think or where my nose is. If you think I'm a total Fulmer supporter, you obviously haven't been paying attention for the last three years.
But, Darth, I have to say that the really funny thing on here now is the number of folks that think Hamilton and Fulmer are or should be listening to them. That's the really hilarious part.
pdhuff#552644 writes:
Doldrums.
thesavageorange writes:
Colliervol :You're last statement above is the truest I have heard.That's my point.Whether you like CPF or not he isn't going anywhere , so why even keep talking about his job status?
BigOrange_supporter writes:
Gerald Jones throws a touchdown pass to Cottam in bowl game. Bank on it.
invisiblekid writes:
Hard to argue with the column, the big boys play in BCS bowl games and neither program has been there lately.
Collier, I disagree with you on one point. The funniest thing on here for me is still how the so-called "positive fans" can throw around as many or more insults than the "negative" fans. A couple of other things that I find amusing are the ones like 12times who seem to enjoy coming on here with their trash talk like it actually means something. I spend more time browsing sports than I should but I'll never be so pathetic as to actually go to another teams website and start running my mouth. If 99Gator reads this, please exclude yourself from that comment. He has more to offer than 95% of the other posters on here. The other thing is the dissertations that some get into to find out who the BSD is on GoVols for the week.
invisiblekid writes:
Amen to that last post savageorange, been saying that since the Bama game.
GoRed writes:
I read the article and was looking for some thoughtful "banter" about the upcoming game.
Outside of the fact you all hate your coach, does anyone have any opinions on the game?
DarthVol writes:
To defend the conversation about Fulmer: the fact that he's not going anywhere regardless of what gets said here (or anywhere for that matter) doesn't make it an issue not worth debating. If we stuck to only issues that we could affect change...what would we talk about? Playcalling? Refs? Player discipline or performance? Salaries? I'll be honest, I can't think of a single issue where what we say here will matter outside what a wavering recruit might read and decide about our fan base.
The Fulmer issue IS a big deal. It's central to how fans feel about the future of the team. And *what could be* will always trump *what is*. And since this is still a football school, this theme will probably find it's way into every column...regardless of the topic. Beaten into the ground? Totally. Not worth talking about? Like everything else...it's a matter of opinion.
DarthVol writes:
red: *thoughtful banter* on this site left a long time ago.
I think we'll play well. Even with the suspensions, this team is capable of routing your badgers. On the other hand, they'll have to show something they haven't shown but once or twice this season to keep from getting blown out themselves (the potential of your running game should be scary to most vols). After a month off, I'll be interested to see what kind of team shows up.
If I were a badger fan I would hope for a series of good breaks in the second half and hope the Vols collapse. But I think they'll put it together for this game. We'll see.
GoRed writes:
FLVol: You comment that the Vols play a tough non-conference schedule. Lets see, does Arkansas State and Louisiana-Lafayette constitute a tough non conf schedule?
With regard to the Badgers record against other teams in the Big Ten, since 2000, they are 3-3 against Ohio State, 4-3 against Penn State and 2-4 against Michigan. In a highly competitive conference, I don't think these are horrible records.
Also, this will be the 4th year in a row the Badgers will have played on Jan 1, all against the SEC. Our record is 2-1 with wins against Auburn and Arkansas, a loss to Georgia.
By the way, the Badgers have won 3 Rose Bowls in '94, '99 & '00, each time as the underdog.
ORANGEAND2 writes:
with the loss of a few starters, i think the team will "fight" even harder for a win.the whole season we have needed a solid,in no doubt,smashing win.the time is at hand!! orange 2-u!!rock the outback!
mojojojo writes:
Zeke says, "I like Adams. I also like colonoscopies".
GoRed writes:
Anyone know much about the kid from Sullivan South HS in Kingsport, TN - Curt Phillips? He has committed to WI. Is this a "lose" to UT? Anyone know about factors that affected his choice?
pdhuff#552644 writes:
GoRed - welcome to banana land! We don't get too excited about Vol football except to stay the course.
We're not sure if we're really a 2 point favorite or a 14 point loser. We have Duke and Okie St coaches on our staff. Other than the Georgia game, one of our biggest high-lites was Whitelightning stealing the don-nut truck in Madison. Tngeoff rediscovered odd oggs.
We're kinda happy to be playing the Badgers rather than watch Hawaii throw for 600 yards in the Sugar against us. But, we're faced with Wisconsin grinding out 300 on the ground. Both scenarios were and are very possible. You can count on us completing 27 passes for 137 yards or so. We come by short hop-scotches disguised (poorly) as 3 yd outs. Foster should get 57 yds on 11 carries.
Your looooong drives will give us bathroom breaks. We didn't mean to ignore the Badgers, but seem to prefer the sideways moving circus sometimes ago known as Tenn football. Man, we bragged on our defense giving up only 464 to LSU. We are a piece of work.
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