Cooper can relate to Fulmer

John Cooper can trace his coaching lineage from John Clabo, to Tommy Prothro to Phillip Fulmer.

Cooper was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame on Tuesday night in New York, joining the likes of Robert Neyland, Bear Bryant, Bobby Dodd and the only man who won more games at Ohio State than he did, Woody Hayes.

"You're talking to a very proud and humble football coach," Cooper said from his home in Columbus, Ohio. "Only 187 coaches are a part of that and I'm very proud to be a part of it."

Cooper, who grew up in Powell and played football at Powell High School, said he first got the idea of going into coaching from Clabo, the Panthers coach. After spending a year coaching the freshman team at his alma mater Iowa State, it was Prothro who gave him his first job as a college assistant.

And the connection to Fulmer, who was dismissed by Tennessee last month? After compiling a 111-43-4 record in 13 years at Ohio State - a winning percentage of .715 - Cooper was replaced. His final team went 8-3 and played in a New Years Day bowl.

The only coach to win Rose Bowls with teams from both the Pac-10 and Big-10 said he knows what Fulmer is going through.

"I think now that coaches ought to leave their school every 10 years and go to another college because you become your own worst enemy," Cooper said. "Look at what Phillip did at Tennessee. He raised the bar."

Fulmer was in New York at the National Football Foundation's awards dinner Tuesday but Cooper said he and the ex-Vol coach didn't speak. He said he plans on calling both Fulmer and former Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville and talk to them about the experience of being replaced after years of success.

"They are going to miss (coaching) and they are going to miss it every day," Cooper said. "But you miss a little less every day that you are out.

"It's good to be able to watch a game and when it's over turn the TV off and go to sleep."

In 24 years as a head coach at Tulsa, Arizona State and Ohio State, Cooper's teams were 193-83-6. Besides a legacy of winning, he said he's proudest that his teams were built "the right way."

"The NCAA was never on my campus," Cooper said. "I told my assistants 'If you knowingly violate the rules, you're fired.' I'm proud of that and proud we treated our players right."

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Comments » 58

FLAVOLS writes:

Good coach but he too couldn't beat his main rival consistently.

byobbio writes:

• The junior college top 100 recently was updated, and there was a significant move in the four-star rankings. Moving up to four stars is Scooba (Miss.) East Mississippi CC safety Jamar Hornsby, who was dismissed from Florida over the summer after using a deceased friend's gas card. Hornsby recently committed to Ole Miss. "I'm real excited," he said. "When I was growing up, I wanted to play in the SEC. I went to Florida. That didn't work out. This will with Ole Miss."

I'm sorry. What do you have to do to not get a scholarship offer from Ole Miss?

tntron writes:

in response to UTfan4life:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Your an idiot. Who the frigg is Pat Devlin, and why would anybody care. Get a life, and I should too for even reading your post. What do you know about him, or what he might be. Some of the people on here need to get a life, and accept that were not a school from FL, TX, or CA, and even OH for that matter. Just be proud that we have an extraordinary program that can compete with the ridiculous amount of talent that is right there in these programs backyard. Im from TN, and now live in TX, and its just truly unbelievable the amount of talent that is here, and the passion for high school football, and it doesnt hurt that there is more people in Houston than there is in the whole state of TN. We all need to be realist around here, and realize its almost impossible to be top ten year in year out in the state of TN. We will have our moments again, but look at yourself in the mirror as a fan and just realize you cant be on top or near the top of the mountain all the time. It will happen again, and Ill being cheering louder than any of us with just as much emotion as I have when we have down years. I lived in SC for a couple of years, and when they went 0fer one time they still sold out every frigging game. I dont want to hear we dont have to go support this mess. Well if thats how you feel start rooting for FL. I promise you they will be better year in year out than we are, but that doesnt mean we cant put a great product on the field to compete with these guys. I think a lot of you no lifers have played video games a little too much for your own good.

utmdm writes:

Agree that it was time for a move and it may be good advice. Saw the same from Steve Superior. But if Fulmer had left for another college position after 10 as suggested, he would forever be crucified as a traitor as would any coach who moved (college) with a high winning record.

So inherent in all that is that a coach goes 10 years moves to the pros, to prevent the backlash, for a while and then moves back to college. Kind of a hard proposition if someone really only likes the college game.

utmdm writes:

in response to utmdm:

Agree that it was time for a move and it may be good advice. Saw the same from Steve Superior. But if Fulmer had left for another college position after 10 as suggested, he would forever be crucified as a traitor as would any coach who moved (college) with a high winning record.

So inherent in all that is that a coach goes 10 years moves to the pros, to prevent the backlash, for a while and then moves back to college. Kind of a hard proposition if someone really only likes the college game.

Or becomes the same as the job jumpers, money grabbers, etc that we villianize here.

BillVol writes:

I'll bet they can relate to each other! Two underachievers!

TommyJack writes:

in response to tntron:

Your an idiot. Who the frigg is Pat Devlin, and why would anybody care. Get a life, and I should too for even reading your post. What do you know about him, or what he might be. Some of the people on here need to get a life, and accept that were not a school from FL, TX, or CA, and even OH for that matter. Just be proud that we have an extraordinary program that can compete with the ridiculous amount of talent that is right there in these programs backyard. Im from TN, and now live in TX, and its just truly unbelievable the amount of talent that is here, and the passion for high school football, and it doesnt hurt that there is more people in Houston than there is in the whole state of TN. We all need to be realist around here, and realize its almost impossible to be top ten year in year out in the state of TN. We will have our moments again, but look at yourself in the mirror as a fan and just realize you cant be on top or near the top of the mountain all the time. It will happen again, and Ill being cheering louder than any of us with just as much emotion as I have when we have down years. I lived in SC for a couple of years, and when they went 0fer one time they still sold out every frigging game. I dont want to hear we dont have to go support this mess. Well if thats how you feel start rooting for FL. I promise you they will be better year in year out than we are, but that doesnt mean we cant put a great product on the field to compete with these guys. I think a lot of you no lifers have played video games a little too much for your own good.

One word: Xanax

The_Mayor writes:

in response to BillVol:

I'll bet they can relate to each other! Two underachievers!

BillVol, don't mean to come at you too harshly, but check yourself at the door before you start throwing insults around, when you really don't know what you're talking about. I've known John Cooper personally my entire life. He went to Powell with my father, and for a little ole country kid from east Tennessee, who grew up with nothing, I'd say he pretty much OVERACHIEVED. It's funny how we lose perspective that everything in life is relative to something else. Get to know John Cooper, and then come back and make a fair post here.

iwilbeafan writes:

in response to BillVol:

I'll bet they can relate to each other! Two underachievers!

As for your comment, if these two men are underachievers, does that make people that have nothing better to do than make comments like yours a loser?

andefromtn#212139 writes:

Both Cooper and Fulmer are men who were born to humble beginnings yet rose to the top of college football coaching ranks. Both men had success in the programs they lead for a period of time and both men were ask to step down when their teams faltered. Cooper is from here yet several have put him down, Why? Powell at the time of this man's youth was mainly a farming community and he was able to success at football so he could go to college. He worked hard, became the coach at one of college football's best programs and earned induction into the Hall of Fame for coaches. Yep, the guy was a total wash.

FYI: Pat Devlin was list by Scout as the 4th top QB prospect in 2006, he redshirted this year so if he transfers to a D-1 school he will have two years after sitting out one. (can't remember but he may only have one left since he has used a redshirt year already) Kiffin will most likely skip him. There is little to gain from bring in a QB transfer who will give you only 1 or 2 years unless you think you cannot develop one from your signing class. Devlin, in order to play right away, will most likely transfer to a lower NCAA level.

jopad#212858 writes:

Thank you Mayor. I have also known John Cooper for many years. We were classmates and teammates at Powell. He and I graduated togather in 1955. John went to Carson Newman, then to the army, and eventually to Iowa State. He was and is a fine man. To charact

jopad#212858 writes:

Thank you Mayor. I have also known John Cooper for many years. We were classmates and teammates at Powell. He and I graduated togather in 1955. John went to Carson Newman, then to the army, and eventually to Iowa State. He was and is a very successful individual. To characterize him as an underchiever is idiotic! Guess the people who do are so much more successful in their profession than he was.

rllipscomb#212376 writes:

sublime, jopad and The Mayor,

Thanks for your comments. I am disgusted by much of what I read here in the posts and the comments. Telling some these people to get a life is probably missing the point. They have lives, pathetic ones.

Simply put, they are using an electronic box to get immediate emotional gratification. I assume they have porn libraries for the same purpose. They cannot be happy in simply pulling for their team to win and appreciate a sporting event for just that. They must win. But then, they do not win or lose. They watch. How odd to confuse someone else's win or loss as their own personal win or loss. Most the time they are not even really paying to watch the game. At the most, pennies pergame. But if they don't get that immediate buzz of projecting themselves on a win that was won by someone else, they get hysterically angry.

How can anyone consider Fulmer and Cooper as anything but successful men?

For years, John Madden has said that coaches in the pros should never stay for more than 10 years. I have come to agree with him and think it now applies to college also. If Fulmer had left after the 2001 season, he would be a legend. And people, such as these angry little putzes, would be begging him for his autograph. Then they would project their venal little lives onto the autograph and feel better about themselves.

NO_DIGGITY writes:

Coaches who grew up in East TN

Steve Spurrier
Mack Brown
John Cooper
Phil Fulmer
Lloyd Carr (briefly)
Bobby Dodd
Murray Warmath

All won National Championships except Cooper, he did win a few Rose Bowls.

Triton1 writes:

in response to BillVol:

I'll bet they can relate to each other! Two underachievers!

I'm impressed with your lack of knowledge, any coach who wins over 70% of the time is exceptional. Read up on sports history before showing your ignorance.

Volgrad777 writes:

sheeees , Sublime , serisouly man you need to listen to TJ and grab a xanax or 5. I saw nothing wrong with that guys post. I personally know who Pat Devlin is and i also care. HE WAS THE 5TH RATED PRO STYLE QB IN THE 06 CLASS , 4.7 40 WITH A FREAKIN CANNON. Thats who he is. You should probably stay in Texas. Some of us do follow recruiting and enjoy doing so. I could care less what you post or what "level" of fan you try to be , all of us enjoy different things. As for your other poster , if you dont want to read the posts dont log on. It appears each of you blew your so called "wads" in those posts. Yet you tell others that they get immediate emotional relief??? Perhaps you two should try some counseling or anger management if a message board really upsets you that much. Sure some folks on here know more than others , that doesnt give you the right to bash anyone. I coach college football and do tend to know what i speak of.Ive seen absolutely nothing written in this thread that is "stupid" or anything else. I certainly feel like you should get a life yourself. Go Horns eh pal???

NO_DIGGITY writes:

in response to country410:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

North Texas State

Volunatic writes:

in response to tntron:

Your an idiot. Who the frigg is Pat Devlin, and why would anybody care. Get a life, and I should too for even reading your post. What do you know about him, or what he might be. Some of the people on here need to get a life, and accept that were not a school from FL, TX, or CA, and even OH for that matter. Just be proud that we have an extraordinary program that can compete with the ridiculous amount of talent that is right there in these programs backyard. Im from TN, and now live in TX, and its just truly unbelievable the amount of talent that is here, and the passion for high school football, and it doesnt hurt that there is more people in Houston than there is in the whole state of TN. We all need to be realist around here, and realize its almost impossible to be top ten year in year out in the state of TN. We will have our moments again, but look at yourself in the mirror as a fan and just realize you cant be on top or near the top of the mountain all the time. It will happen again, and Ill being cheering louder than any of us with just as much emotion as I have when we have down years. I lived in SC for a couple of years, and when they went 0fer one time they still sold out every frigging game. I dont want to hear we dont have to go support this mess. Well if thats how you feel start rooting for FL. I promise you they will be better year in year out than we are, but that doesnt mean we cant put a great product on the field to compete with these guys. I think a lot of you no lifers have played video games a little too much for your own good.

Relax already. He's not an idiot for posting news about a supposedly available QB. Recruiting news is all we Vol fans have right now. Deal with it.
By the way, if you want to call someone an idiot, you probably shouldn't use the possessive "your" when you are trying to say "you're", the contraction form of "you are". It kind of makes you seem like... an idiot.

Volunatic writes:

I still think Earl Bruce was better.
Fulmer does have one major accomplishment to which Cooper can't relate: a National Championship in an undefeated season.

shoalcreekvol writes:

in response to TommyJack:

One word: Xanax

I was gonna say "Midol"

shoalcreekvol writes:

in response to byobbio:

• The junior college top 100 recently was updated, and there was a significant move in the four-star rankings. Moving up to four stars is Scooba (Miss.) East Mississippi CC safety Jamar Hornsby, who was dismissed from Florida over the summer after using a deceased friend's gas card. Hornsby recently committed to Ole Miss. "I'm real excited," he said. "When I was growing up, I wanted to play in the SEC. I went to Florida. That didn't work out. This will with Ole Miss."

I'm sorry. What do you have to do to not get a scholarship offer from Ole Miss?

What do you have to do to NOT get a head coaching offer from Ole Miss?

I think that bar was set when they hired The Ogre a few years ago.

The_Mayor writes:

in response to NO_DIGGITY:

Coaches who grew up in East TN

Steve Spurrier
Mack Brown
John Cooper
Phil Fulmer
Lloyd Carr (briefly)
Bobby Dodd
Murray Warmath

All won National Championships except Cooper, he did win a few Rose Bowls.

PEOPLE who grew up in East TN

Millions

Only one won the Rose Bowl. They did win "firsty" here on this cute little chat site though. What over achievers they are!

The_Mayor writes:

in response to jopad#212858:

Thank you Mayor. I have also known John Cooper for many years. We were classmates and teammates at Powell. He and I graduated togather in 1955. John went to Carson Newman, then to the army, and eventually to Iowa State. He was and is a very successful individual. To characterize him as an underchiever is idiotic! Guess the people who do are so much more successful in their profession than he was.

Jopad, hey, then I'm certain you know my parents, as well as my uncle Sonny and aunt Nancy. I last saw John at my uncle Sonny's funeral at Powell United Methodist Church a couple of years ago.

The_Mayor writes:

in response to rllipscomb#212376:

sublime, jopad and The Mayor,

Thanks for your comments. I am disgusted by much of what I read here in the posts and the comments. Telling some these people to get a life is probably missing the point. They have lives, pathetic ones.

Simply put, they are using an electronic box to get immediate emotional gratification. I assume they have porn libraries for the same purpose. They cannot be happy in simply pulling for their team to win and appreciate a sporting event for just that. They must win. But then, they do not win or lose. They watch. How odd to confuse someone else's win or loss as their own personal win or loss. Most the time they are not even really paying to watch the game. At the most, pennies pergame. But if they don't get that immediate buzz of projecting themselves on a win that was won by someone else, they get hysterically angry.

How can anyone consider Fulmer and Cooper as anything but successful men?

For years, John Madden has said that coaches in the pros should never stay for more than 10 years. I have come to agree with him and think it now applies to college also. If Fulmer had left after the 2001 season, he would be a legend. And people, such as these angry little putzes, would be begging him for his autograph. Then they would project their venal little lives onto the autograph and feel better about themselves.

You're spot on, RLLipscomb. Sad but true, I'm afraid.

Moaninglikeheck writes:

You people are un-effing-believable. Do you know that?

John Cooper just got inducted into the Hall of Fame, as will Fulmer in due time. Both are native Tennesseans who along with another Tennessean and future HOFer, (Loyd Carr), pretty much defined major college football in the 90's.

Yet they are underachieving losers to the experts on GVX.

I'd be interested in knowing the average annual salary of the posters on this site that make these statements. I'd be MORE THAN WILLING to bet my life's savings that its less than 40k a year.

Enough said.

Moaninglikeheck writes:

in response to NO_DIGGITY:

Coaches who grew up in East TN

Steve Spurrier
Mack Brown
John Cooper
Phil Fulmer
Lloyd Carr (briefly)
Bobby Dodd
Murray Warmath

All won National Championships except Cooper, he did win a few Rose Bowls.

Thanks for reminding me that Mack Brown and Steve Spurrier were Tennesseans as well!

And undoubtedly they, along with Fulmer, Carr, and Cooper, pretty much shaped the football we all watched in the 90s.

Its pretty amazing that these humble men from ordinary Tennessee families went on to do such great things in football.

And yet swarms of underachieving dipsh1ts with $500 laptops from Best Buy and dial-up think they have room to criticize.

Un-effing-believable.

Volunatic writes:

in response to The_Mayor:

PEOPLE who grew up in East TN

Millions

Only one won the Rose Bowl. They did win "firsty" here on this cute little chat site though. What over achievers they are!

From the following list:
Steve Spurrier
Mack Brown
John Cooper
Phil Fulmer
Lloyd Carr (briefly)
Bobby Dodd
Murray Warmath

Four of those won the Rose Bowl.
Mack Brown won the Rose Bowl after the '04 and '05 seasons, Lloyd Carr won the Rose Bowl after the '97 Season, Murray Warmath won the Rose Bowl after the '62 season, and John Cooper won it after the '96 Season with OSU and after the '86 Season with AZ St.
So from the list, only Spurrier, Fulmer, and Dodd never won it. Dodd only had '45 and '46 as chances to play there, because after that it became exclusively a Big 10 (aka lil' 11) vs PAC 10 (aka pac 1 or occasionally 2) matchup.

NO_DIGGITY writes:

in response to Moaninglikeheck:

Thanks for reminding me that Mack Brown and Steve Spurrier were Tennesseans as well!

And undoubtedly they, along with Fulmer, Carr, and Cooper, pretty much shaped the football we all watched in the 90s.

Its pretty amazing that these humble men from ordinary Tennessee families went on to do such great things in football.

And yet swarms of underachieving dipsh1ts with $500 laptops from Best Buy and dial-up think they have room to criticize.

Un-effing-believable.

I left a few men off from East TN that didn't have stellar careers like the others but did become head coaches. Coaches such as Watson Brown, Steve Sloan and Carl Torbush. I am sure most of them were from humble beginnings, I know Torbush was.

The_Mayor writes:

in response to Volunatic:

From the following list:
Steve Spurrier
Mack Brown
John Cooper
Phil Fulmer
Lloyd Carr (briefly)
Bobby Dodd
Murray Warmath

Four of those won the Rose Bowl.
Mack Brown won the Rose Bowl after the '04 and '05 seasons, Lloyd Carr won the Rose Bowl after the '97 Season, Murray Warmath won the Rose Bowl after the '62 season, and John Cooper won it after the '96 Season with OSU and after the '86 Season with AZ St.
So from the list, only Spurrier, Fulmer, and Dodd never won it. Dodd only had '45 and '46 as chances to play there, because after that it became exclusively a Big 10 (aka lil' 11) vs PAC 10 (aka pac 1 or occasionally 2) matchup.

OK, then let me re-phrase.

Number of PEOPLE who grew up in East TN

Millions

Number of PEOPLE who grew up in East TN who won the Rose Bowl

4

Number of PEOPLE who grew up in East TN who won the Rose Bowls at multiple universities

1

Yep, that John Cooper guy was a low down, good for nothing underachiever, wasn't he? Good grief.

NO_DIGGITY writes:

in response to The_Mayor:

OK, then let me re-phrase.

Number of PEOPLE who grew up in East TN

Millions

Number of PEOPLE who grew up in East TN who won the Rose Bowl

4

Number of PEOPLE who grew up in East TN who won the Rose Bowls at multiple universities

1

Yep, that John Cooper guy was a low down, good for nothing underachiever, wasn't he? Good grief.

In my earlier comment I wasn't trying to downplay Coopers accomplishments, just trying to point out the coaching talent that grew up within 140 miles of Knoxville. It's amazing that 4 National Champion coaches from 1996 to 2005 were from this area. Cooper had 3 years in that time frame that given a break here or there he could have joined that group.

The_Mayor writes:

in response to NO_DIGGITY:

In my earlier comment I wasn't trying to downplay Coopers accomplishments, just trying to point out the coaching talent that grew up within 140 miles of Knoxville. It's amazing that 4 National Champion coaches from 1996 to 2005 were from this area. Cooper had 3 years in that time frame that given a break here or there he could have joined that group.

We're good, No_Diggity.

Moaninglikeheck writes:

in response to rllipscomb#212376:

sublime, jopad and The Mayor,

Thanks for your comments. I am disgusted by much of what I read here in the posts and the comments. Telling some these people to get a life is probably missing the point. They have lives, pathetic ones.

Simply put, they are using an electronic box to get immediate emotional gratification. I assume they have porn libraries for the same purpose. They cannot be happy in simply pulling for their team to win and appreciate a sporting event for just that. They must win. But then, they do not win or lose. They watch. How odd to confuse someone else's win or loss as their own personal win or loss. Most the time they are not even really paying to watch the game. At the most, pennies pergame. But if they don't get that immediate buzz of projecting themselves on a win that was won by someone else, they get hysterically angry.

How can anyone consider Fulmer and Cooper as anything but successful men?

For years, John Madden has said that coaches in the pros should never stay for more than 10 years. I have come to agree with him and think it now applies to college also. If Fulmer had left after the 2001 season, he would be a legend. And people, such as these angry little putzes, would be begging him for his autograph. Then they would project their venal little lives onto the autograph and feel better about themselves.

Sir, you put into words, far better than I, what I've been trying to understand about Fan hysteria since Fulmer's job was first called into question.

I have yet to see one person on this site enunciate a logical reason for holding contempt for Phil Fulmer...Yet its obvious by their choice of vernacular that they despise him. One might assume Phil Fulmer refused a lot of autographs during his tenure and bruised some tender feelings.

Seriously, not one reason to hate him, but so many do.

It is so personal for them, this need to see Tennessee win. It must be like an addiction that needs a fix. Oh, don't get me wrong, I get the same high as them when our Vols win. However, I do not crash and burn when they lose. I do not lose my composure, I do not seek a target for my frustrations. I simply shrug it off and move on.

I can understand how some concluded, after Fulmer's mostly recent string of disappointments, that his time was up. I fault no one for that opinion. I even decided to share it by this season. But that is a non-personal business-oriented stance. Instead of guiding my personal feelings toward resentment, I chose to guide them toward respect and even admiration. It is so simple to do, so cheap, and I feel better when I think in those terms.

It just leaves me speechless that so many have chosen to not only kick him when he was down, they've continued to poor salt on the wounds. Next will be gasoline. Its fankly creepy. I hope and pray that this site is NOT a true sampling of popular opinion. Heaven help us if it is.

Fulmer declined some autographs and they are sore over it. That's got to be it.

TNisPeerless writes:

in response to The_Mayor:

BillVol, don't mean to come at you too harshly, but check yourself at the door before you start throwing insults around, when you really don't know what you're talking about. I've known John Cooper personally my entire life. He went to Powell with my father, and for a little ole country kid from east Tennessee, who grew up with nothing, I'd say he pretty much OVERACHIEVED. It's funny how we lose perspective that everything in life is relative to something else. Get to know John Cooper, and then come back and make a fair post here.

Perhaps if one's measure of overachieving is beating average expectations and leaving a small town then you are correct. The facts, however, are clear. Cooper lost the "big game" year in and out with more talent than ANY other college coach in the 90's. The NFL is littered with his players. Do you think Tressel magically improved the talent level there? It's classic underachieving.

Moaninglikeheck writes:

in response to TNisPeerless:

Perhaps if one's measure of overachieving is beating average expectations and leaving a small town then you are correct. The facts, however, are clear. Cooper lost the "big game" year in and out with more talent than ANY other college coach in the 90's. The NFL is littered with his players. Do you think Tressel magically improved the talent level there? It's classic underachieving.

Please, I would like just one of you guys to let us all know what "overachieving" or "underachieving" is by using your own accomplishments as measure.

And I'm not going to ask about coaching or sports accolades, because unless your name is Spurrier, Meyer, Carrol, Bowden, Stoops or Saban etc.
(get the picture?) you are in no position to criticize Cooper or Fulmer.

Tell us all about your personal achievements in some other arena that compare to either Cooper or Fulmer. Lets see, these two men coached elite NCAA DivI football programs for many years and compiled winning percentages above .700. They have conference titles, major bowl victories, and in Fulmer's case a NC on their resume. They each recruited and coached multiple NFL pro-bowlers and college/NFL hall of fame caliber players.

OK, to even compare to Fulmer, Cooper, I'd say you need to be in the top 5% performance category in some elite arena. Heck, even if it is video game championships I'd be impressed.

Do you have a patent or invention that is commonplace in usage and distribution in the general community?

Have you written any bestsellers?

Do you have the lyrics copyrighted to even a single top-40 song to brag about?

Have you ever cracked 7 digits of annual income to prove eliteness in your professional field?

Have you done anything more with your life than graduate from college (if that), get a job, marry the girl next door, mortgage a home, have 1.5 kids, and go on a few cruises for vacation in your life? I mean really. I'm not claiming anything grand either, but I'm not the one accusing anyone of "underachieving".

This message board is a fantasyland where anonymous "underachievers" can live out their dream of being a sports critic. But guess what, as much as you'd like to think you know something, you'll never half 1/10th the success of Fulmer or Cooper or 1/100th of their fame and prestige...no matter how their career ended.

The_Mayor writes:

in response to TNisPeerless:

Perhaps if one's measure of overachieving is beating average expectations and leaving a small town then you are correct. The facts, however, are clear. Cooper lost the "big game" year in and out with more talent than ANY other college coach in the 90's. The NFL is littered with his players. Do you think Tressel magically improved the talent level there? It's classic underachieving.

Perhaps if one's scope of success in life is based on relativity, your argument might merit value. The facts, however are clear. Cooper could knock on your door this evening and purchase your house and everything you own with the change under his sofa cushions.

SURELY you have more sense than this. I mean, good grief man, I don't even know where to begin in trying to relate to your mentality level. I'll give it a go.

Google your name and then go to your Wikipedia summary and copy and paste your life accomplishments in a Word document column.

Then Google John Cooper. Go to his Wikipedia summary and then copy and paste his life accomplishments in another column in that Word document.

Then come back here and post the results for all of us to see what your definition of "underachieving" really means.

The_Mayor writes:

in response to Moaninglikeheck:

Please, I would like just one of you guys to let us all know what "overachieving" or "underachieving" is by using your own accomplishments as measure.

And I'm not going to ask about coaching or sports accolades, because unless your name is Spurrier, Meyer, Carrol, Bowden, Stoops or Saban etc.
(get the picture?) you are in no position to criticize Cooper or Fulmer.

Tell us all about your personal achievements in some other arena that compare to either Cooper or Fulmer. Lets see, these two men coached elite NCAA DivI football programs for many years and compiled winning percentages above .700. They have conference titles, major bowl victories, and in Fulmer's case a NC on their resume. They each recruited and coached multiple NFL pro-bowlers and college/NFL hall of fame caliber players.

OK, to even compare to Fulmer, Cooper, I'd say you need to be in the top 5% performance category in some elite arena. Heck, even if it is video game championships I'd be impressed.

Do you have a patent or invention that is commonplace in usage and distribution in the general community?

Have you written any bestsellers?

Do you have the lyrics copyrighted to even a single top-40 song to brag about?

Have you ever cracked 7 digits of annual income to prove eliteness in your professional field?

Have you done anything more with your life than graduate from college (if that), get a job, marry the girl next door, mortgage a home, have 1.5 kids, and go on a few cruises for vacation in your life? I mean really. I'm not claiming anything grand either, but I'm not the one accusing anyone of "underachieving".

This message board is a fantasyland where anonymous "underachievers" can live out their dream of being a sports critic. But guess what, as much as you'd like to think you know something, you'll never half 1/10th the success of Fulmer or Cooper or 1/100th of their fame and prestige...no matter how their career ended.

Thank you sir.

rllipscomb#212376 writes:

Moaninglikeheck,

Thanks for pointing out the other aspect to all this. I feel very sad because of the losses and the down season. But I also feel sad for Fulmer. In part, I am sad for him because he proved that he could produce winning teams, only to slip a little along the way. It is the same sadness I had as a kid when my favorite baseball player, Al Kaline, was no longer good enough to be in the majors. I was sad, not pissed off at him.

I am also sad because I never doubted his effort or his integrity. Seriously, does anyone believe he did not give it his all? I can only imagine the hours he put in each week. Was anyone ever worried about picking up the paper to read that he lost his credit card to a stripper or that we would get the death penalty?

When his daughters ran off the field with him after a game, they just lit up being with him. As a father of two grown daughters, I know how hard you have to work to get that relationship, that look. You can fool a lot of people, but you can't fool your family.

Then there was the firing itself. Could he have handled it any better? Is anyone really worried about Fulmer behaving like Majors? Is anyone worried that he will go on a radio show and trash Kiffin? If Kiffin asks for help, does anyone believe Fulmer won't help?

One last thing is this $37,500 contract. Seriously people, Fulmer just got a $6 million buyout. Do you really think he is doing this for the money? That translates to $150K per year salary. I have speculated that he is being retaind as a lobbyist and fundraiser. Good luck on getting a fulltime lobbyist for $150K. More importantly, Fulmer can turn $150K into $15 million in the snap of his fingers. You better take that deal every time you get a chance.

The point is that he has been a very good coach and is a great man. He brought honor to my alma mater, and I respect him and thank him. The people that are taking cheap, anonomous cheap shots at him aren't fit to carry his jock strap.

They demean no one but themselves.

TNisPeerless writes:

QUESTION: Why did Ohio State ask Cooper to step down? Was it because he MET expectations or because he FAILED to meet expectations?

ANSWER: Failing to meet expectations is called underachieving. There is no argument.

QUESTION: Is Kelly Washington an underachiever?

ANSWER: Anyone who replies "yes," but thinks Cooper is not is deceiving themselves. Your logic should apply to both. I would answer "yes" to both.

You all are seriously missing the point. I never compared my, yours or any other poster's accomplishments to Cooper's. I did however compare him to his successor who has already made it to 3 BCS championship games. Cooper could not beat Michigan even in games he was favored. Cooper couldn't make it to one bowl game with the NC on the line. Tressel won the first as a huge underdog and was plastered the subsequent two. Compare Cooper to his successor who had the same advantages yet clearly outperformed him, not to me.

Colliervol writes:

Fellas, try not to break an arm patting yourselves on the back for that high and mighty attitude. (So many sermons, so little time to read them.) A little advice. Save the morals and ethics lectures for the editorial page and your kids. The thought that the four of you are any better than others because of your love for one coach is silly. I would agree with you that some folks are a bit overboard with their criticism but, hey, everybody in the world can't be as classy as you now can they?

I defended Phil long and hard for many years. But this is a business, pure and simple. It was successful for many years but, as with any other business that slips, CEO's and managers get replaced. Happens every day. Get over it and move on. I did. Besides, Phil's getting $6 million to get over it. Not bad for a parting gift.

The_Mayor writes:

in response to TNisPeerless:

QUESTION: Why did Ohio State ask Cooper to step down? Was it because he MET expectations or because he FAILED to meet expectations?

ANSWER: Failing to meet expectations is called underachieving. There is no argument.

QUESTION: Is Kelly Washington an underachiever?

ANSWER: Anyone who replies "yes," but thinks Cooper is not is deceiving themselves. Your logic should apply to both. I would answer "yes" to both.

You all are seriously missing the point. I never compared my, yours or any other poster's accomplishments to Cooper's. I did however compare him to his successor who has already made it to 3 BCS championship games. Cooper could not beat Michigan even in games he was favored. Cooper couldn't make it to one bowl game with the NC on the line. Tressel won the first as a huge underdog and was plastered the subsequent two. Compare Cooper to his successor who had the same advantages yet clearly outperformed him, not to me.

OK, let's use your logic.

Peyton Manning: underachiever. Tee Martin won a national championship.

Tee Martin: underachiever. Peyton Manning won a Superbowl.

Chris Lofton: underachiever. Never really won anything while in college. Will probably wind up in Italy.

Heath Shuler (or shall I say, Senator Heath Shuler?): underachiever. Ditka said so.

Danny Weurffel: underachiever. Ditka said so.

Yep, some real losers here, huh?

TNisPeerless writes:

To the Mayor of Flawed Analogies

Achievement and expectations are generally to be judged on an individual level. A person with Trisomy 21 maintaining a job that you or I would not prefer to work at is overachieving; whereas, a person with an IQ of 150 maintaining a 3.5 GPA is underachieving. Some people would say 3.5 is pretty good, but not for someone with that IQ it is not.

If OSU's and Cooper's expectations were to regularly lose to their rival and never win an NC, then kudos to him. I believe that were you to ask him what he planned to accomplish during his time he would have told you beat Michigan regularly and win a NC. I am sure that's what he was selling his future NFL players and recruits on. If he told them we'll win 5 games a year then he overachieved.

If you read the Bible, this concept is in the parable of the talents. To whom much is given much is required. If not please ignore the preceeding sentences.

You made too many ridiculous pseudopoints for me to take them all down one at a time. Sufficed to say Tee overachieved during his time at UT and Peyton met or underachieved depending on who one asks; but Peyton certainly did not overachieve based on his status as the #1 high school recruit. I love Peyton as a player btw.

cltvol writes:

in response to Moaninglikeheck:

You people are un-effing-believable. Do you know that?

John Cooper just got inducted into the Hall of Fame, as will Fulmer in due time. Both are native Tennesseans who along with another Tennessean and future HOFer, (Loyd Carr), pretty much defined major college football in the 90's.

Yet they are underachieving losers to the experts on GVX.

I'd be interested in knowing the average annual salary of the posters on this site that make these statements. I'd be MORE THAN WILLING to bet my life's savings that its less than 40k a year.

Enough said.

Moaner,
You seem to to equate salary with success, and the assumption is a large group of the posters don't meet your success definition. Any ideas on who would have a legitimate opinion on these coaches?

The_Mayor writes:

in response to TNisPeerless:

To the Mayor of Flawed Analogies

Achievement and expectations are generally to be judged on an individual level. A person with Trisomy 21 maintaining a job that you or I would not prefer to work at is overachieving; whereas, a person with an IQ of 150 maintaining a 3.5 GPA is underachieving. Some people would say 3.5 is pretty good, but not for someone with that IQ it is not.

If OSU's and Cooper's expectations were to regularly lose to their rival and never win an NC, then kudos to him. I believe that were you to ask him what he planned to accomplish during his time he would have told you beat Michigan regularly and win a NC. I am sure that's what he was selling his future NFL players and recruits on. If he told them we'll win 5 games a year then he overachieved.

If you read the Bible, this concept is in the parable of the talents. To whom much is given much is required. If not please ignore the preceeding sentences.

You made too many ridiculous pseudopoints for me to take them all down one at a time. Sufficed to say Tee overachieved during his time at UT and Peyton met or underachieved depending on who one asks; but Peyton certainly did not overachieve based on his status as the #1 high school recruit. I love Peyton as a player btw.

I will give you credit for not being a beligerent jerk while debating a point. I'll maintain the same level of respect, yet still completely disagree, based on your total lack of consitency, not to mention your manipualtion of scripture, but that's the problem with you hell fire and brimstone Baptists...you love to impose your beliefs on others, despite the fact that you twist the hell out of the original intent.

Lack of consistency: You began your argument by comparing John Cooper to Jim Tressel. Your latest stance was comparing Peyton Manning to, well, Peyton Manning. My issue here, was with BillVol, who with great ignorance commented that Fulmer and Cooper should be able to relate to each other, because they are both underachievers. I do not know Phil Fulmer on a personal level. I do know John Cooper on a personal level, and have for 45 years. He started life with basically nothing more than the bare essentials, just like any other farm boy from little ole Powell, Tennessee. He left Powell, joined the Army, served 2 years, went to college at Iowa State, where he became captain and MVP. Went into coaching, and won everywhere he went. His final duty, of course, was at Ohio State, and I don't have to tell you the rest of the story. My argument in all this is two-fold. 1.) John Cooper the person, is a flat out success in every aspect of the word. The summation of his life would be simply charaterized as, to whom little was given, much was required. He is, as a human being, an overachiever. 2.) Who is BillVol or you (while you're throwing God's word at me) to pretend as though you have the right to judge whether or not John Cooper is an underachiever, when you don't even know the man? Maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe John Cooper is your best friend. No, that can't be true. John Cooper's best friend died two years ago. He was my uncle.

Moaninglikeheck writes:

in response to cltvol:

Moaner,
You seem to to equate salary with success, and the assumption is a large group of the posters don't meet your success definition. Any ideas on who would have a legitimate opinion on these coaches?

No, I do not equate salary with success, but it is the one measure by which all of us can be "fairly" scaled across the board...and it is also "typically" the measure by which we criticize ourselves.

I would NEVER claim to be particularly successful by that measure. I am a salaried employee of a fortune 500 company and my salary is well above the national average but not considered "wealthy" by any stretch of the imagination. I do not see myself as particularly successful in my career, but I am happy being an average middle class American.

You also won't see me criticizing people who have far exceeded my lot in life, unless they have done so through unscrupulous means.

My point was that if you aren't at least meeting or slightly exceeding the national average salary in your career, you aren't proving yourself to be extraordinary are you? You certainly aren't demonstrating great ambition or motivation. I would say that is ordinary.

If you are doing something else with your life, something special that isn't for monetary gain...such as Peace Corp work or something, and you are doing great things, then this measure isn't relevant. But I doubt most of the posters on this site are engaged in such.

Most of them are bored office workers sitting at a cubical with nothing else to do but complain. Either that or unemployed. Nothing extraordinary.

Moaninglikeheck writes:

in response to cltvol:

Moaner,
You seem to to equate salary with success, and the assumption is a large group of the posters don't meet your success definition. Any ideas on who would have a legitimate opinion on these coaches?

Oh, I really didn't answer your question.

Everybody has a legitimate opinion of coach Fulmer. I do not think your opinion isn't legitimate based on your own success in life.

When someone says "Fulmer was losing too many games and needed to go". That is a legitimate criticism. To say that "Fulmer was not as successful as Neyland, Bryant, Dodd, etc, and therefore not a truly GREAT coach, that opinion is debateable but not altogether without merit.

But to say Fulmer is not worthy of praise, not a "good" coach, and not deserving of a "place" in Tennessee legend, that is proposterous. To call him a loser or worse is assinine. The same with John Cooper.

Understand something, I realize the criticism of Fulmer is over the top for a reason. Some people just like to push the envelope. The louder or more obnoxious or more extreme the comment, the more attention it draws. Its the same phenomenon that causes rubbernecking on the interstate. The more gruesome the wreck, the longer people linger their gaze. The more outlandish the criticism of Fulmer, the more rise a poster gets out of his readership.

The problem is, this is not a game. It is real life and real people are being effected. Many coaches and their families are displaced because A) yes, the had a bad year and B) We dragged them through the mud over it.

I'm not saying the firing wasn't justified...its the lynching afterward and before that turns my stomach. Utterly, tragically, and shamefully ridiculous.

cltvol writes:

I agree that society (self-included), tends to measure success monetarily and materially and assert that to be quite a trap that we are paying for these days. Since this is a sports board, I'm convinced that the sports business will join us in the recession like nobody would have ever predicted, partially because of the runaway greed train. What's happening with the Nascar teams here in the Charlotte area is a leading indicator. I don't buy your generalizations about most of the posters, but I can't prove them false, so carry on and take care.

Moaninglikeheck writes:

in response to The_Mayor:

I will give you credit for not being a beligerent jerk while debating a point. I'll maintain the same level of respect, yet still completely disagree, based on your total lack of consitency, not to mention your manipualtion of scripture, but that's the problem with you hell fire and brimstone Baptists...you love to impose your beliefs on others, despite the fact that you twist the hell out of the original intent.

Lack of consistency: You began your argument by comparing John Cooper to Jim Tressel. Your latest stance was comparing Peyton Manning to, well, Peyton Manning. My issue here, was with BillVol, who with great ignorance commented that Fulmer and Cooper should be able to relate to each other, because they are both underachievers. I do not know Phil Fulmer on a personal level. I do know John Cooper on a personal level, and have for 45 years. He started life with basically nothing more than the bare essentials, just like any other farm boy from little ole Powell, Tennessee. He left Powell, joined the Army, served 2 years, went to college at Iowa State, where he became captain and MVP. Went into coaching, and won everywhere he went. His final duty, of course, was at Ohio State, and I don't have to tell you the rest of the story. My argument in all this is two-fold. 1.) John Cooper the person, is a flat out success in every aspect of the word. The summation of his life would be simply charaterized as, to whom little was given, much was required. He is, as a human being, an overachiever. 2.) Who is BillVol or you (while you're throwing God's word at me) to pretend as though you have the right to judge whether or not John Cooper is an underachiever, when you don't even know the man? Maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe John Cooper is your best friend. No, that can't be true. John Cooper's best friend died two years ago. He was my uncle.

Mayor.

Thank you VERY MUCH for demonstrating the social POISON which is internet message boards and yellow journalism media.

On this site you have some individuals who read an article about John Cooper, who without thought or consciousness "essentially" called him a failure.

And by happenstance, YOU, a man who knows him personally, read the article and are offended by it...(rightfully so).

You know this man, John Cooper, who for most of us on this board is nothing more than a figure on our television screens, someone we'll never have the privelage of meeting or knowing. Someone who's success in life is unattainable by us and will forever be.

It is very easy to criticize people like that, there is no consequence to it. Our criticism is, by nature, drowned in the criticism of masses, the anonymous nature of the internet. With no fear of consequence, we can say whatever we please no matter how proposterous.

Yet, the unreachable nature of the John Coopers and Phil Fulmers in this world makes them no less human, no less harmed by words. I know that their profession requires a thick skin, but no armour is unpenetrateable. I'm fairly certain Phil Fulmer would give every penny he ever made to die a loved and admired man. To at the minimum offer him a simple gesture of "respect" costs us nothing, yet for these foolish wannabe's it is like asking for a fortune. It truly amazes and disappoints me that human nature is so petty.

cltvol writes:

in response to Moaninglikeheck:

Oh, I really didn't answer your question.

Everybody has a legitimate opinion of coach Fulmer. I do not think your opinion isn't legitimate based on your own success in life.

When someone says "Fulmer was losing too many games and needed to go". That is a legitimate criticism. To say that "Fulmer was not as successful as Neyland, Bryant, Dodd, etc, and therefore not a truly GREAT coach, that opinion is debateable but not altogether without merit.

But to say Fulmer is not worthy of praise, not a "good" coach, and not deserving of a "place" in Tennessee legend, that is proposterous. To call him a loser or worse is assinine. The same with John Cooper.

Understand something, I realize the criticism of Fulmer is over the top for a reason. Some people just like to push the envelope. The louder or more obnoxious or more extreme the comment, the more attention it draws. Its the same phenomenon that causes rubbernecking on the interstate. The more gruesome the wreck, the longer people linger their gaze. The more outlandish the criticism of Fulmer, the more rise a poster gets out of his readership.

The problem is, this is not a game. It is real life and real people are being effected. Many coaches and their families are displaced because A) yes, the had a bad year and B) We dragged them through the mud over it.

I'm not saying the firing wasn't justified...its the lynching afterward and before that turns my stomach. Utterly, tragically, and shamefully ridiculous.

Basically with you. I've said on previous posts the following points:

1- No sympathy for Fulmer. I think Cut saved him especially w/ the Ainge development. The mid-season firing was the right move, too. Fulmer fired (demoted?)Sanders under the same circumstances.
2- Agree that he, Cooper, Carr were good coaches. They were not peter principle incumbents. All worked hard, made sacrifices, got promoted, had success, got rewarded. I'll let the MI and OH people argue the merits of whether they should have been fired. The common thread for all 3 is that they seem to have peaked and were not forging ahead. However, PF had 2 losing seasons in the past 4. Totally unacceptable.
3- Feel bad for the asst coaches and their families. They don't have the super money PF got.
4- No way do I support personal attacks about his or anybody's weight, family, those things. The solace is that it demeans the writer much more than the subject.

The_Mayor writes:

in response to Moaninglikeheck:

Mayor.

Thank you VERY MUCH for demonstrating the social POISON which is internet message boards and yellow journalism media.

On this site you have some individuals who read an article about John Cooper, who without thought or consciousness "essentially" called him a failure.

And by happenstance, YOU, a man who knows him personally, read the article and are offended by it...(rightfully so).

You know this man, John Cooper, who for most of us on this board is nothing more than a figure on our television screens, someone we'll never have the privelage of meeting or knowing. Someone who's success in life is unattainable by us and will forever be.

It is very easy to criticize people like that, there is no consequence to it. Our criticism is, by nature, drowned in the criticism of masses, the anonymous nature of the internet. With no fear of consequence, we can say whatever we please no matter how proposterous.

Yet, the unreachable nature of the John Coopers and Phil Fulmers in this world makes them no less human, no less harmed by words. I know that their profession requires a thick skin, but no armour is unpenetrateable. I'm fairly certain Phil Fulmer would give every penny he ever made to die a loved and admired man. To at the minimum offer him a simple gesture of "respect" costs us nothing, yet for these foolish wannabe's it is like asking for a fortune. It truly amazes and disappoints me that human nature is so petty.

Thank you, MLH. You demonstrate that there actually are people who get it. You're a solid dude.

cjraney writes:

in response to BillVol:

I'll bet they can relate to each other! Two underachievers!

Sure Bill, one of 187 coaches in the College Football Hall of Fame, what a loser that guy.

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