Posted by tngeoff on January 5, 2008 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well written. Good job. Bill Battle was a really nice guy. Now how about the next Chapter?

Posted by mtnvol on January 5, 2008 at 2:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Coach Battle was a man of Faith who put his family first. He was always at his son's little league games supporting them, not politicing with the parents. I'm happy that he has done well in the business world.

Posted by FWBVol on January 5, 2008 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was a freshman at UT in 1976 and remember when Bill Battle was forced to resign. He aid, "Class is when they run you out of town to make it look like you're leading the parade."

Even those who didn't like him as a coach, never had a bad thing to say about Bill Battle other than his win-loss record.

Bill Battle was class then and remains a class act today.

Posted by grvol on January 5, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

He was a good coach and his teams seemed very motivated. He just did not recruit lineman. That cost him his job.

Posted by vol52 on January 5, 2008 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A fine man who did not need to be treated like he was. May not have been the best coach and we were in a decline but I liked him very much.

Posted by murrayvol on January 5, 2008 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

FWB: His win-loss record wasn't that shabby(59-22-2).

It's how he got there that did him in. Auburn 2-5. Bama 1-6. And his 7 year slide to mediocrity didn't help:
1970 - 11-1
1971 - 10-2
1972 - 10-2
1973 - 8-4
1974 - 7-3-2(no more Dickey recruits)
1975 - 7-5
1976 - 6-5

Bill Battle was a good man, a good dad and husband(I assume), a good posistion coach, possibly a decent coordinator, and obviously a successful businessman. But being a head coach at a place like Tennessee requires a skill set that most folks don't have.

Posted by jamcdaniel79 on January 5, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bad play calling seems like it has a long history at UT. Still, I would rather lose on a fake punt than try to lose running the "G Gun" want to be spread offense for no reason. If we are going to run spread, fine, but you have to be able to throw and run....not just run with everyone in america knowing you are running on the play pre-snap.

Posted by murrayvol on January 5, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I wonder if Doug Dickey ever ponders what might have been if he had stayed at Tennessee. I have!

Posted by TurboFan on January 5, 2008 at 5:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Excellent story and writing Tom. Thank you. Do you have an explanation on why Woodruff favored Battle?

I wonder what would have happened if Majors had been hired in 1970, then just two years into his stint at Iowa St. Would Tony Dorsett have been a Vol? Would we have had a NC instead of Pitt in 76 or even earlier with the talent Dickey left? Interesting what-ifs that can never be truthfully answered.

Posted by arkyvol on January 5, 2008 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i was a student at UT in the late 60s and early 70s, and i remember the shock of hearing doug dickey was leaving for florida and that a 28 year old assistant coach had been hired as head coach. my take on battle: a great man, a good coach, but a terrible recruiter. he was destined for failure. the mystery about all this for me is why woodruff (a lousy a.d.) would pick the perfidious doug dickey to replace him. but then, i guess i've answered my own question--woodruff was lousy.

Posted by FWBVol on January 5, 2008 at 7:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

murrayvol, I never said Battle's record wasn't that bad. I said his won-lost record is the only thing fans could find bad to say about him. That slide that you mentioned was the cause of the griping too.

From 11-1, to 10-2 for a couple of years on down. I believe if he had shown some improvement in 1976, he might have saved his job for another year, but maybe not.

Because Johnny was such a hot item on his way to the national championship that year, I think anything less than 10, maybe nine wins and Battle was gone any way.

I don't know that Battle gets a fair shake on his recruiting. Maybe he didn't haul in the huge names, but he recruited some pretty good players.

Mickey Marvin was one of the first huge lineman that weighed in the 280-290 range. Roland James was a Battle recruit who went on to a tremendous NFL career at safety for the Patriots.

Stanley Morgan was perhaps the fastest player in the SEC when he was at UT and played WR and RB before becoming an All-Pro WR for the Patriots.

Larry Seivers, who, I believe is overdue for the College Football Hall of Fame, was a two-time AA receiver.

Center Robert Shaw was signed by Battle, and was later a first round pick of the Cowboys.

I'm sure the names Haskel Stanback, Hubert Simpson and Jimmy Noonan mean something to longtime fans such as myself.

And perhaps the two most popular recruits of the Battle era were Condredge Holloway and Jimmy Streater.

Posted by stroker on January 5, 2008 at 7:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was there and remember Dickey's first return to Neyland Stadium. A rather large gentleman with a strong yankee accent and a bottle of Jack sat behind me and after every play yelled "down with Doug Dickey". I guess that was the poplar sentiment at the time, but that accent sure was irritating.

Posted by bigfan502 on January 5, 2008 at 11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

IN CHOOSING BILL BATTLE AS HEAD COACH...THE AD AT THE TIME WAS SAID TO BE A POKER PLAYER..( BOB WOODRUFF) ON A WHIM WHEN DICKEY LEFT THE VOLS FOR FLORIDA....WOODRUFF QUICKLY PICKED BILL BATTLE AS HEAD COACH, ALTHOUGH BATTLE HAD NEVER BEFORE BEEN ANYTHING BUT A VOL END COACH. FOR THE FIRST TWO YEARS BATTLE WON BIG (WITH DICKEY'S PLAYERS) HE WAS A GOOD COACH..BUT LACKED THE PERSON-PERSON SKILLS TO RECRUIT TOP PLAYERS, THUS VOLS FELL TOWARD OBLIVION...BUT SHORTLY AFTER BATTLE LEFT, WOODRUFF, CHOSE JOHN MAJORS...WHO PROVED TO BE A DISASTER, MAJORS LOST MORE GAMES THAN ANY VOL COACH IN HISTORY.

Posted by tngeoff on January 6, 2008 at 4:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

FWBVol.

Those are some fantasic players that I still remember well. Larry Seivers was only one of two players his senior year named to EVERY All-American team. Stanley Morgan? That guy was unbelievable. I worked at the Boy's Club (not combined with Girl's Clubs at that time) over on Caswell Ave in Knoxville back then and Morgan and a few others would volunteer there. I have NEVER seen anybody do athletic. He was a great guy too. I really liked Bill Battle and hated how he was treated. A total gentleman in every respect. Had some incredible wins during his tenure and like you say, brought in some all time Tennessee greats.

Posted by vol52 on January 6, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know if anyone remembers a paper boy named Bobby who sold papers to students at the center and along the strip on the weekends. He had cerebral palsy. Battle asked his players to buy a paper from Bobby to help him out since he had no family in the Knoxville area and lived in a hotel in downtown Knoxville.

Posted by PaulTheVol on January 6, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This article should be a warning to all those in a hurry to push CPF out the door. Bill Battle was an excellent coach with a good staff but they couldn't recruit. And if you aren't a excellent recruiter at Tennessee then you start to get the results that he did. I knew it was over when we were starting 190 lb. defensive ends. Alabama had Richard Todd at QB at that time and he was bigger than our defensive lineman.

Those of us who are old enough to have historical perspective know that in the SEC its very easy to go from the penthouse to the outhouse and all the coaching talent in the world doesn't help if you don't have playing talent.

Posted by reedt on January 6, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow!! Had not thought of Bobby in decades, but remember him well--even in the late sixties while a student at UT!! Also, anyone remember the blind vendor (Richard) on "the hill"?

Posted by vol52 on January 6, 2008 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

reedt - He is in a nursing home some ware outside of Knoxville. I believe I read that in a Marvin West article. I used to give him a ride to downtown Knoxville and I bought papers from him. He loved to talk Tennessee Sports. Did Richard work in the student center?

Posted by reedt on January 6, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol52--Thanks for feedback. No, he worked in the building just southeast of Ayers Hall on the hill, just inside the lobby. Had a counter there and people would tell him the denomination of bill--honor had some meaning back then. Can't remember the building name--maybe Daugherty Hall??

Posted by stevefrommemphis on January 6, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bill Battle was way too young to be a head coach. If Andy Holt and Elam thought Battle was too young, one might ask why they didn't go ahead and hire Majors and let Woodruff go. The only answer I know is that Woodruff was married to a Stokely, as in Stokely Athletic Center (SAC). When she died around 1980, they placed a monument in from of SAC in her memory, which looked sort of odd. It almost made it look like she was buried in front of SAC.

I must disagree with bigfan502. Johnny Majors was not a disaster. Majors left the program in much better shape than it was when he came in. He spent several years trying to rebuild what Battle destroyed.

PaulTheVol is saying in a direct manner exactly what I have been hinting at throughout the fall. Those of us old enough to remember the Bill Battle days know that change can result in disaster.

Posted by vol52 on January 6, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

reedt, i do believe I remember him. The things we forget. Thanks for the blast from the past!

Posted by FWBVol on January 6, 2008 at 5:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tngeoff, if I remember correctly, Stanley Morgan ran indoor intramural track after his senior year of football and turned in a 60-yard dash time that would have won the NCAA. Although he was moved around a lot with the different Battle's different offenses, he was probably the first prototype wide receiver for Wide Receiver U. He never earned the AA honors to get into the College Hall, but some time down the road I hope there's a place for him in Canton.

Posted by tjmshm on January 6, 2008 at 9:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bobby Langston died in Nov. 2006, the Monday after the Arkansas game. Here's the story: http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/matting....

Bob Woodruff's first wife was Margaret Artley, but there is a plaque in her honor in front of Stokely Athletics Center.

Actually, most of the Dickey recruits were gone by the end of the 1972 season.

Posted by bricker865 on January 6, 2008 at 11:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nice legs btw...(black and white pic) on the front of the article.... :)

Posted by bricker865 on January 6, 2008 at 11:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sorry guys, probably a dumb post and besides the fact of the article...but something that caught my attention....lol...go vols!!

Posted by why36knot on January 7, 2008 at 7:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Doug Dickey's won /lost record was unbelievably good. He didn't know he wasn't suppoed to beat Bear Bryants teams. I for one hated to see him go . It was a terrible personal decision on his part. It took years for him to rcover from it. Stops at Florida and Colorado were real stinkers. Woodruf saved his bacon when he hired him as AD.
Battle was a nice, nice man....PERIOD

Posted by bigfan502 on January 8, 2008 at 10:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DICKEY WAS GOOD FOR THE VOLS...HE QUICKLY TURNED THE PROGRAM AROUND....ONLY TWO COACHES EVER BEAT " BEAR BRYANT THREE YEARS IN A ROW. THEY WERE DOUG DICKEY AND THE FATHER OF VOL FOOTBALL: GEN BOB NEYLAND....ENOUGH SAID.

Posted by TNPilgrim on January 9, 2008 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dickey was a good coach and was on his way to building a top-tier program at TN when he inexplicably made the decision to jump to FL. I think if he had stayed at TN he would probably have won at least one national championship. On the other hand, the Bill Battle hiring was one of the worst in the history of major college football, right up there with Jerry Faust at Notre Dame. Everybody but Woodruff knew the right hire was Johnny Majors and it's a shame that Andy Holt didn't override the decision and send Woodruff into retirement. When they finally did hire Majors, it took years to repair the damage done by Battle and he never did really recover from the Battle era. Chances are if Johnny had inherited the program Battle did, his legacy would be entirely different. The smartest thing Battle did was to get out of coaching.

Posted by FWBVol on January 9, 2008 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

TNPilgrim, do I detect a hint of hostility about Battle?

Battle might not have been the best coach in UT history, but he certainly wasn't one of the worst in the history of major college football. There are dozens of coaches that rate way behind Battle in his ability to coach.

Battle never had a losing season at UT, and under the current structure with 32 bowl games, he probably would have taken the team to a bowl every year.

Granted, Majors did have an uphill climb, but things weren't as bad as you make them seem when Johnny took over the program. Is it Battle's fault that it took Majors nine years to win his first SEC title. That means he needed six full recruiting classes to win in 1985.

If the climate in college football had been then, what it is today, Majors would have never made it to 1985.

You state that, "Dickey was a good coach and was on his way to building a top-tier program at TN when he inexplicably made the decision to jump to FL."

The same could be said of Majors at Pitt. He had just won the NC and was national coach of the year. The reason Dickey left UT for Florida was the same reason Majors left Pitt for UT...he was going home to Gainesville, where he not only attended college, but went to high school as well.

Posted by bigfan502 on January 9, 2008 at 11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I THINK WHEN MAJORS TOOK OVER THE VOL HEAD JOB, EVERY VOLUNTEER FAN WAS EXCITED AND EXPECTED GREAT THINGS FROM JOHNNY, HE WAS ONE OF US...BUT HE SEEMED UNABLE TO RECRUIT, BUT HE EXPLAINED THAT THE VOLUNTEERS TO BE SUCCESFUL, IT WOULD TAKE MORE TIME THAN FIRST THOUGHT, BUT HE WAS SURE IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF TIME. THEN HE LAMENTED THAT THE PROGRAM UNDER BATTLE HAD DECLINED MORE THAN HE THOUGHT....ALTHOUG BATTLE HAD NEVER HAD A LOSING SEASON IN HIS SIX SEASONS AT THE VOL HELM....WHEN MAJORS BECAME HEAD COACH, AD BOB WOODRUFF SAID " WE EXPECT TO BE PLAYING CHAMPIONSHIP FOOTBALL IN TWO TO THREE YEARS. HOW WRONG HE WAS. INSIDERS HAD LEARNED THAT WOODRUFF, BURNED BY THE BATTLE HIRE, WAS NOT SO SURE THAT MAJORS WAS RIGHT FOR THE JOB, HE WAS NEVER THAT ENTHUSED BUT KEPT THIS TO HIMSELF..BECAUSE HE RELIZED THERE WAS A GREAT DEMAND FROM FANS AND SCHOOL OFFICIALS. AFTER ALL< JOHNNY HAD JUST TAKEN PITTSBURG TO THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP> HE COULD DO THE SAME FOR THE VOLS. IT TOOK THE VOLS UNDER MAJORS EIGHT YEARS TO REACH A MAJOR BOWL (WON OVER MIAMI IN THE SUGAR BOWL). BUT THE NEXT YEAR THE VOLS BEGAN TO DECLINE AND IN I988, LOST THEIR FIRST FIVE GAMES AND VOL FANS REALLY FOR THE FIRST TIME UNDER MAJORS BECAME CRITICAL OF THE PROGRAM. THEY NO LONGER HAD FAITH IN MAJORS, WHEN HE TOLD THEM " THEY WERE CLOSE TO WINNING BIG ON A CONSISTANT BASIS". COUNTING THE BATTLE YEARS, ALONG WITH THE MAJOR YEARS IT HAD BEEN ABOUT 20-YEARS AND THE VOLS HAD PLAYED IN ONLY ONE MAJOR BOWL GAME. COACH DOUG DICKEY, FORMER VOL COACH WAS APPOINTED AD, AND IT DID NOT TAKE LONG TO REALIZE THAT THE VOLS' FAVORITE SON COULD NOT REALLY GET THE JOB DONE, FOR WHATEVER REASON. DICKEY WAS PERPLEXED, HOW DO YOU EASE OUT JOHNNY, NATIONALLY KNOWN AND HIGHLY POPULAR WITH MANY FANS "THAT BELIEVED HIM WHEN HE SAID HE JUST HAD GOT THERE YET". ALL VOL FANS KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AS JOHNNY WAS EDGED OUT. SINCE THEN, TIME HAS SHOWN THAT JOHNNY DISLIKED RECRUITING, HIS FIREY TEMPER CAUSED SEVERAL ASSISTANT COACHING TURNOVERS. PERHAPS, IF WE RECALL WHAT GENERAL NEYLAND HAD SAID ON MANY OCCASIONS...A GREAT PLAYER GENERALLY DOES NOT BECOME A GREAT COACH, "IT COULD BE THAT A GREAT PLAYER LACKS THE PATIENCE AND CANNOT STAND MEDICORITY". ANYWAY, ALL VOL FANS ARE FOND OF JOHNNNY AND HIS FAMILY.

Posted by weisgarber2003 on January 10, 2008 at 1:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"MAJORS LOST MORE GAMES THAN ANY VOL COACH IN HISTORY."

Fulmer, with his average three losses per year, will surpass Majors as the all time losingest UT coach, if he stays 4-5 more years.

Posted by FWBVol on January 10, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

weisgarber, so you are saying it will take CPF about five years longer than Majors to lose more games. Interesting. CPF has now coachd 192 games and Majors coached 186.

bigfan502, good post. One small correction, in 88 the Vols lost their first six games. That's when Ken Donahue was made the scape goat and let go as D-coordinator.

Posted by weisgarber2003 on January 10, 2008 at 7:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"weisgarber, so you are saying it will take CPF about five years longer than Majors to lose more games. Interesting. CPF has now coachd 192 games and Majors coached 186."

All I am doing is refuting/clarifying what the op said as he referred to Majors as the losingest coach in UT history. If Fulmer coaches a few more years, and based on his average loss record, he will have lost more games than any UT coach in history, replacing Majors. Unfortunately, he also would surpass Neyland in all time wins, and that is a very real tragedy, as Fulmer couldn't wear Neyland's socks or j.s either. Neyland made UT football.

Posted by stevefrommemphis on January 11, 2008 at 10:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I must agree with TNpilgrim. The Bill Battle hiring was one of the WORST in major college football history. Faust at Notre Dame is a good comparison, except that Faust did not attend Notre Dame's biggest rival. Battle was 26 years old when he got the head coaching job! How many 26 year olds do you know who are experienced enough to lead a major organization? That hiring set the Tennessee program into a wilderness at least from the 1972 Alabama game until the 1985 Sugar Bowl. Battle NEVER once in seven years improved his record from one year to the next. I can't remember the book, but I have read one book about UT history which said that by the time it ended, some assistant coaches didn't even know the positions they were coaching well enough to instruct the players how to line up. Tennessee trails Alabama today in the all time series, because Tennessee lost 12 years of excellence because of the Bill Battle hiring.

Posted by bigfan502 on January 12, 2008 at 10:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ONE CANNOT BLAME BATTLE FOR THE POOR SHOWING OF MAJORS...WHEN BATTLE LEFT THE VOL PROGRAM HE LEFT WITH A 750 WINNING PERCENTAGE...HE WAS UNABLE TO BEAT BAMA EXCEPT THE FIRST YEAR OF HIS SIX YEARS AND THE FINAL BLOW WAS WHEN THE VOLS WERE BEATEN AT HOME BY NORTH TEXAS STATE IN ONE OF THE BIGGEST UPSETS IN YEARS. VOL OFFICALS WERE BERATED AROUND THE COUNTRY FOR FIRING A COACH WITH A 750 WON-LOST WINNING RECORD.