Posted by Vols1998 on January 15, 2008 at 8:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I hope we have a Plan B,

Go get some new Vols!!

Posted by jobrando on January 15, 2008 at 8:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mom and dad decided to try to keep them away from drugs

Posted by volfaninVA on January 15, 2008 at 8:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Too bad. Local law enforcement in Norman must not be as tough about burnt out license tag lights. And if we let people drive around with burnt out licence tag lights, then the terrorists have won.

Posted by tenuscvol on January 15, 2008 at 8:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Probably best for all involved considering recent events...my guess is they were staying home anyway......tough break though ...hopefully some talent will come our way....GoVols!

Posted by jsmithnga on January 15, 2008 at 8:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

SURPRISE,SURPRISE!

Posted by ncvol17 on January 15, 2008 at 8:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe they just heard Knoxville had some good ganja so they came for a toke.

Posted by utwick on January 15, 2008 at 8:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A friend of mine in Dallas (and a big Okie fan) told me a week ago that Owens was pretty much a lock for the Sooners. They held a scholarship for him. He visited UT just to take in the visit (and catch a buzz). I bet, like Clinton, he never inhaled.

Posted by VolsorCat on January 15, 2008 at 8:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am not giving up yet, but it seems like there is very little good news with respect to recruiting. A long 3 weeks lies ahead. We need to close strong.

Posted by tngeoff on January 15, 2008 at 8:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Owens said he had been "very high on Tennessee" at one point in time.

Well. This year in recruiting is certainly one for the ages. "Busted" certainly has multiple applications here.

Posted by eaglentn2002 on January 15, 2008 at 9:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WOW thats really a shocker! I was positive we'd get Owens I heard his parents were very impressed!

Posted by King53 on January 15, 2008 at 9:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tenuscvol...I agree. Best if all parties involved just move on. As already posted, I don't think UT was really in the running for his services anyway.

Posted by spencer1989 on January 15, 2008 at 9:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well....It could have been worse. He could have signed....Gotten here...Become a great player....And then booted off the team for being buzzed. Maybe it's a good thing but we will really never know.

Posted by TNfaninMS on January 15, 2008 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So who exactly have we recruited????? Seems to me like our recruting has fallen out the bottom... anyone agree?

Posted by rabidvol1998 on January 15, 2008 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Shouldn't be "targets ... pick" not "picks"? Obviously i need a life.

Posted by mdvol on January 15, 2008 at 9:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why can't Josh McNeil host the recruiting visits? That boy knows how to get the chicks. Three at one time I believe was the story. See if Owens will reconsider. Have McNeil call him.

Posted by orvol on January 15, 2008 at 9:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bottom line is all we really need in this class are DTs, OLs, and a DE or two. Despite McGee's decision to go to OK, we're still in good shape to pick up what we need. Of course, it will come down to signing day, but we don't need a highly ranked class this year. We've just got to fill our needs.

Posted by VOLS85 on January 15, 2008 at 9:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You're right rabid, I thought we held our esteemed reporters in the journalism field to a higher standard than half of the posters on here.

On a related note, I think losing these two was a forgone conclusion anyways...

Posted by TNPilgrim on January 15, 2008 at 9:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For those of us that are parents: what would you have done if your son had gone half way across the country on a recruiting trip and got busted by the cops smoking pot in a car with the "escorts" from his prospective team? Personally, I would have had two words - Forget Tennessee! Considering their past drug problems and the associated publicity, it's hard to believe that Fulmer can't get these guys to stay clean when they're with the recruits. But it's also hard to believe that when they get caught he treats it like a curfew violation. So much for taking advantage of a good hire with the OC.

Posted by nicksjuzunk on January 15, 2008 at 9:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jobrando,

Exactly.

VolsorCat,

Exactly

Posted by tennecwingrider on January 15, 2008 at 9:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And the hits just keep on coming......

Posted by dvols on January 15, 2008 at 9:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i wonder what police in norman, tuscaloosa, auburn, gainesville, and athens do when they catch athletes.

also our academic standards must be higher,since we had a few suspensions during bowl season.

cant blame coaches on this one, just location and men with integrity working in blue!

Posted by csneed on January 15, 2008 at 9:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JAMEEL.. DUDE..
You made the right choice. You're an idiot. Where are your parents? Wasn't there any parental training here, hey, hello.. POT IS WRONG, AND YOU WILL GET BUSTED, SON.

I don't give a @#$%$^ if you're the best rated "whatever" in high school football, this one will be the first to use steroids to get the bulk he needs. We are not babysitters here.. you're an adult now, but if you cannot ACT like an adult, PLEASE DON'T EVER LEAVE OKLAHOMA.
Now, you're somebody else's problem.
Thank God.

Posted by Pullingguard on January 15, 2008 at 10:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Chances were slim to none to start with.. Face the facts, UT has not done a good job on recruiting this year... Probably Trooper did not give his all with job opportunities and the rest of the staff has not been focused with the recruiting coordinator going elsewhere... Question is,,, Is it too late to recover? Probably a class out of the top 25 this year... Will tell on the team later.

Posted by BigVolinCarolina on January 15, 2008 at 10:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Boy, I didn't see this one coming. Did you?

Posted by snowvol on January 15, 2008 at 10:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No surprise at all. As TNPilgrim noted, those of us who are parents "get it". No way I let my son, or daughter for that matter, go to a school after finding out his university hosts were smoking some pot.

I've been wildly critical of Fulmer over the past few years. However, his hire of Clawson was a dramatic step in the right direction; major props to him for an excellent move. Leave it to Fulmer, though, to act like this incident is little more than kids being stupid. No Phil, it's more than that. I played basketball at the D-1 level in the late 70's. Had me or anyone else on the team been nailed in a situation like this, we'd be off the team. This is where a coach desperately needs to make a statement to everyone in that locker room: You do something stupid like this, you're done here. Some might think that's harsh. Others know it would correct a good deal of the problems. Fulmer, or any other head coach, can't be a babysitter. But a coach can have a set of standards that when they're broken or not lived up to, the player knows the price he'll be paying.

Posted by awhill00 on January 15, 2008 at 10:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is panning out (so far) to be the worst recruiting effort/success in the Fulmer era. What gives?

Posted by HilltopperVolPhi608 on January 15, 2008 at 10:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Personally, I'm not really worried about this years recruiting class. Don't you guys know that we have had two top 5 finishes in recruiting in the last three years according to rivals? Last year we got Brimfield who was listed at weighing 287 when he signed but now probably weighs 300, Ben Martin is going to be a stud, Donald Langly, and Rolando Melancon. And don't forget the local guy Rae Sykes. Yeah we need lineman on both sides of the ball, but I'm not particularly worried about this years class. I expect a monster class next because there should not be any questions about the coaching stability.

Posted by tngeoff on January 15, 2008 at 10:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

snowvol.

Good post. By the way, as snowvol, where do you live?

Posted by dogboy on January 15, 2008 at 10:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So sad... Maybe next year the hosts won't do drugs in front of the recruits. Wow what a shame to lose out on those guys. I wonder how much talent has been lost to the Mary J.

Posted by dburgVol on January 15, 2008 at 11:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I totally agree that smoking pot is way wrong, especially if there are recruits involved, but ok, kick them off the team? This isnt high school. These guys are legally adults, and you cant blame Fulmer for everything. I mean to most of you guys Fulmer might as well have horns, a pointed tail, and carry around a pitch fork. He cant be held responsible for everything. He cant just get rid of these kids, he has a moral responsibility to try to help them get their lives together and coach them, and oversee their academics. He's not a nanny, and I think he does the right thing by giving them another chance. You dont want them ending up like James Banks do you? He wont slap them on the wrists, but he wont tell them to go to you-know-where. He wants to make a difference in their lives as young men and I commend him for that. Lastly, we have a young team that really only needs depth because we have very able bodies to play, but this subpar class will show up in a few years in the 4th quarter when the starters are tired.

Posted by bedmagic_23 on January 15, 2008 at 11:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

At this point it looks like the coaches should focus their efforts on the 2009 class.

Posted by dvols on January 15, 2008 at 11:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

like i said, yu ens think we are the only ones that have drugs?

snoop dog hangs out at usc

duh

and i like ol snoop

Posted by nitetime on January 16, 2008 at 12:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

i feel like the orange is in a positive direction with the new hire but they do need some more strict rules than just drug classes after the first offense. when they know that is all they will get then they do not care about getting caught with drugs. we need to stop treating these guys like they are meal tickets and start uping the stacks so this will be a nice environment so a mother 500 miles away will not have any concerns. phil you need to build the public trust up

Posted by pdhuff on January 16, 2008 at 4:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mountain buzzing or flathills playing! Thank goodness this will all blow over. We may even move up again to rankings. We've sprang from 44 to 42nd and now a giant leap to 41st.

Look out top 30, we're a threat. Just ignore Rivals top 100 (final now), we weren't interested. Good thing, they weren't either. Mutual pact. Come on Clawson, spring some "good" surprises on us. My Vols, up or down, some days the road's a little smoother.

Posted by texvol on January 16, 2008 at 4:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

They were going there before last week. He only came to Knoxville to see if the blounts were comparable to those in Norman. Guess not.

Posted by Smokey57 on January 16, 2008 at 6:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

dburgVol on January 15, 2008 at 11:15 p.m.

Way to go with a voice of reason. All of those posting "parents" who "get it" apparently would have crucified their flesh and blood if caught smoking pot.
As for CPF, of course it's ALL his fault. It was his turn to mind the nursery. Again, the parents who "get it" would never let their 17-18 year old out of their sight for a second! That's how those parents know their kids aren't involved in any "extracurricular" activity. When their kids go to college, those parents will go with them and follow them around like a new puppy.

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"McGee said he will talk to teammate Jameel Owens about UT's campus before he makes his announcement Tuesday. Owens, a wide receiver who also will announce his college choice Tuesday, visited UT this weekend.

McGee said he spoke to Owens on Saturday night while Owens was in Knoxville.

"He just told me it was fun and I missed out," McGee said. "He was like, 'You should have come.' "

HAHAHAHA, ok allow me to interperet this.

McGee-Hey man, whats up.

Owens- Man you aren't going to believe what happened to us earlier tonight!

McGee-Whats that?

Owens- First we checked out some local hot spots and hung with some ladies. Then, we took a car ride and boy did it get crazy. We got pulled over by Knoxville police while I was rolling with 2 players and we were smoking some blunts. Yea, they got pulled over for a broken plate light and smoke was coming out of the car from the weed we were hitting. It was crazy man.

Mcgee- Oh yea.

Owens- Yea, you should have come. It was fun, you missed out.

McGee- Go Sooners.

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 7:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

People, STOP IT! Stop making excuses about "this is college" and "they are just kids". Let me give you folks that have NOT been to other countries a wake up call....this kind of incident is not a common occurance in other countries.

You look at some countries and the kids...and notice I use the term kids in this instance because they are kids (unlike the 18-21 year old ADULTS that attend college). So, in some countries kids are working in their families businesses as children. Some children are working on farms, driving cars, budgeting money, holding jobs, etc. And let me assure you, this isn't just taking place in countries with poor socioeconomic conditions. These events are taking place in many strong countries.

When I went to Denmark last kids were driving cars and working full time jobs. Not because they had to, but because they were treated as competent humans set to a high standard. There was no "aw, he's just a child and doesn't know any better". There was a standard set and expected.

I took a trip to Europe on a cultural exchange one year and had teenagers with me. We had a group discussion with the local group that was there and we discussed "rights" and "expectations" and how they differed in both countries. Someone made a comment that they did not have a curfew and that none of the local teens in the country had cerfews...that was teh norm. One of the teenage boys from my delegation made the comment "You guys have more freedom than we do". The reply from the Eurpoean teen was "No, you just have less".

Hold people to a higher standard and you get behavior that reflects.

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Smokey57,

You can cut the sarcasm...it isn't necessary. That isn't what dburgvol was trying to say. He appears to have been suggesting upbringing and parenting. Is it the parents fault their child smoked weed..no. But hopefully at some level parents will not simply "minimize" or "normalize" inappropriate behavior. Pot to some is no big deal..its college...its normal...its natural. Fine, have that mentality. But if a parent minimizes pot then whats next? Meth? Cocaine? And the things that come with that lifestyle and the people that use those substances?

Yea, its just pot....no big deal....gee, nobody make a stink...its just pot. Won't hear me saying that to my son.

Posted by GreerVol22 on January 16, 2008 at 8 a.m. (Suggest removal)

winning the coaching battle....losing the recruiting war....I know you had to hire a staff coach but ge whiz beav...is there not one person on the staff focused on locking up some of these players?

While the coaching hires were smart and safe, they were not "sexy" and that ladies and germs is what lures the top athletes these days.

Posted by LazhilUT on January 16, 2008 at 8:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I can't believe some of you are mad at the cops!
So what they were stricter because of the tag light?
The point here is, we had someone driving while he was getting high! That my friends is driving impaired. MArijuana is illegal. Buying it, selling it and smoking it is illegal! You should be mad at our players that cost us a great recruit and not at the cop who because he was being too tough (yes he was) caught some punk football player getting high. The problem is not the cop, the problem is the players' attitudes.

Posted by losvolsganan on January 16, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yep... no pot smoking in Denmark. LOL

Higher standard in Denmark...LOL

Posted by GoVol on January 16, 2008 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I guess Paige & Jones made sure no new talented receivers would come in and threaten their chances of playing time!!

Posted by Basketball_Jones on January 16, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't blame the kid that was in the car. If I was his parents I would not have ben happy with what happened. Imagine sending your son on a recruiting trip and he gets put in all the papers about being in the car with some UT players who have weed....Mine wouldn't be back in that town.

Posted by bigbluevol on January 16, 2008 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)

TNPilgrim-

Someone said it, but it's not like OU is exactly the land of spick and span. Lynn McGruder was trying to sell weed out of his dorm room at UT and Fulmer kicked him off the team. Where did he turn up? OU. Stoops has not exactly been a strict disciplinarian, either. These two players had said they would like to play together. McGee hadn't visited yet. They decided to stay in state, as they had long been rumored to do. As long as we fill our needs, we'll be ok. The recruiting rankings don't ultimately decide anything.

Posted by waterskier3 on January 16, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

folks bad class in 2005, good class in 2006, bad class in 2007...... means you are going to be average in your conference. its hard enough to win every game getting top 5 talent every year but when you go from top 10 to top 100 every other year that lower tier talent has to play and they are lower tier for a reason......

what were the defensive coaches doing while fulmer was trying to hire an offensive staff... come on the defensive staff can't be pounding the payment....

average expectations breeds average performance... is that our standard at UT now.... we're ok with 3 losses a year???
forgive me for expecting more

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

These kids announced several weeks ago that they would announce together yesterday even though McGee wasn't scheduled to visit until later. They were a long shot to start with but that pretty much made it obvious.

After the mj thing... there was no chance. I can't imagine their parents being anything but livid.

Posted by arkyvol on January 16, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

i keep logging on, hoping for some good news about commits, but man! it looks like this season is gonna be right up there with some of bill battle's best.

Posted by bigbluevol on January 16, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

waterskier, as I've pointed out before, we had a good class in 2004. That makes sense. You get highly rated "skill" players one year, you're not as likely to get them the next. Now UT is trying to get lineman, not something that gives them a lot of points in the recruiting system. It's going to be ok.

Posted by redmanvol on January 16, 2008 at 9:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think we should start recruiting smarter guys to come to this university. Why didn't they just smoke the blunts in their apartment and bring in some strippers from Last Chance (not the ugly one with C section scars). I bet the recruits would have come to UT then.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

waterskier, your years are off. The 2007 class was one of UT's best ever. The 2005 class was very good. The 2006 class was pretty poor after the 5-6 season.

This year's class isn't done yet. Something like 14 of the schools ranked ahead of UT by Rivals have a lower "star" average. Several others probably will since they've gotten the 4*/5* players they are going to get and are in protect mode. I think 19 of the schools ahead of UT have 20+ commits meaning they are full or close to it... and there are still some good uncommitted players looking at UT.

FTR, IF UT could complete its class and not break the top 30 but sign more 3* players on par with Poole, Johnson, Bailey, and Wilks... they'd have the biggest sleeper class in the country. ALL of these guys are underrated.

AND FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME- THE BEST IMMEDIATE IMPACT PLAYERS BROUGHT IN THIS YEAR WON'T COUNT TOWARD RANKINGS- Faison, Warren, and Morley.

Posted by vol4jesus on January 16, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ladies and germs? greer get that spelllllcheck a workin'. Is the sky falling? When is signing date? Just don't rivals yourself to death over recruiting. Life is more than a box of chocolates and 4**** recruits. See ya

Posted by Ironcity on January 16, 2008 at 9:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As I predicted in an a post a couple of days ago, once the coaching changes were made the Fulmer haters were going to pound on recruiting. Once the recruiting deadline passes and we get a number of good players the Fulmer haters will pound on the guys who transfer or get into trouble (that part is already happening). Its a broken record that will never change. If we had a top 5 class the same people would be complaining about the ones that got away. Its unfortunate but our fan base is pretty fractured right now. I would argue that a complete change of coaching would likely drive our team into a second division status for a decade or more. One will never know if thats the case until it happens but I could easly see this happening if we fire another successful coach.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You are right Ironcity. The same folks whose answer to a highly rated recruiting class is "Yeah, but what have they actually done on the field" followed by anecdotes about highly rated recruits that flopped... are now complaining about a class that isn't highly rated.

I would almost wager that some of these guys have said that UT would be better off recruiting 3* players that will develop and keep their noses clean over the highly ranked players.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW, CPF has a knack of finding contributors that aren't highly rated. These guys made significant contributions in their first year... most as true Fr:

Cooper- 2*
Frazier- 3*
Rogan- 3*
Moore- 3*

I don't think there's any question that Rivals and Scout underrated all of these kids... and there could be more by the time it plays out.

I don't want to downgrade the kids but several of the more highly rated players either didn't contribute or didn't contribute as much as these guys.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Should have said "all were true Fr".

Posted by jdcvols on January 16, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ironcity, your comments are just as bad as the so-called Fulmer haters. Are you capable of understanding why the fan base is fractured?? You can have your opinions about CPF but I can assure there are many out there that feel the opposite. I just receive my copy of the latest Rocky Top News and they referenced the fractured fan base several times in two different articles. The trend over the past 6 years, bowl loss to PSU, and the horrible losses to ALA and FLA caused it...having players caught with drugs and a suspect recruiting season (so far) is not helping. What CPF needs is some consistent good news and a strong winning season in 2008. In the meantime, the fan base has every right to question everything about the FB program.

Posted by GiveHimSix1387 on January 16, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Man, our recruiting is absolutely atrocious this year. We win the East and 10 games and can't put up half the recruiting class we did last year. I hope CPF can do what he usually does and finish well.

Posted by jdcvols on January 16, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Question for the KNS Staff...how about giving us an update on who we are actively recruiting? It seems that we have 10-15 spots to fill with only 3 weeks left, I think we would all appreciate an update.

Posted by CatScratchFever on January 16, 2008 at 10:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The the thing that bothers me about this is that Fulmer refuses to see how his current discipline policy will have long term negative effects on the program. Eventually, he will have to "pay up".

A policy of allowing 4 strikes for doing something that is ILLEGAL is not a very good policy. Is it even a "policy" at that point? There are still some very good players out there with parents who are involved in their children's lives. These are the ones Tennessee stands to lose now.

For those who try to argue that the 4-chances policy is not made by Fulmer...I think he has the power to initiate any reasonable discipline policy he wishes. He really should make a statement that there is now a ZERO tolerance policy for drugs of any kind for the team....then he needs to enforce it aggressively. It may hurt a bit in the short term, but in the long haul Tennessee will be better for it.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

GiveHim... There are half as many 4* and 5* recruits in Tn this year and the only players I'm aware of with Berry-like allegiance to UT are Johnson 3* (underrated by most accounts) and Carson Anderson 2*.

Johnson could eventually be a very good LB or DE. Anderson is a project at best.

The thing that really helped UT last year was that Berry, Donald, Vinson, and Walker helped recruit Martin, Jones, Paige, etc. Without those firm, highly recruited players like that out there helping draw other great players... you are behind the 8 ball.

BTW, Here are some more 2/3* guys we're probably glad UT found: Hancock, Richard, Briscoe, Arian Foster, Dan Williams, Chris Brown, both Cottams, Stocker, Dorian Davis, Wardlow, Gaines, M Johnson, all the kickers,...

Just a rough estimate- this year's contributors were about 50%-50% between 3* players and 4-5* players. Even Ainge was rated 3* by Scout.

Posted by GerryOP on January 16, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Owens was strongly considering UT until PAF told him that last Friday night burned one of his 4 chances. Mean Ol' Phil. ;-{

Posted by TommyJack on January 16, 2008 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jdcvols: You're way out of line with such a logical post. What are you, are loser/hater?
On the money, dude. Pound the fritter.

Posted by vol4jesus on January 16, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

remember boys and girls you don't get fashion points for recruiting ol/dl and lb's. So don't look for glamour ranking like last year. We just need to close some big boys for the trenches to go with our skill class from last year. GO VOLS!!!

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jdcvols, UT is still in on a 4* DL in GA- Thompson.

There's a 4* LB from Ga that UT is also in on but I can't remember his name.

They are in decent shape with Witherspoon the LB out of NJ if he de-commits from Mich.

D Curtis is a 4* RB and according Rivals one of the top 10 homerun threats coming out this year. It is between UT and Ark... and Ark has been losing some ground with a few of the early commits by focusing on other players.

Page from SC and the big kid from AL whose name eludes me are two 4* recruits that UT is in the final list for.

This weekend a 4* DE from Ga visits- UT leads for him.

Abrams-Ward is said to be down to UNC and UT. He's from Winston-Salem though.

There's an outside chance with the addition of Drayton that UT could make a late charge with Darrell Scott- #1 RB in the country out of CA. Texas leads Colorado right now but he really liked Drayton. UF has been dropped if I understand right.

These are the 4* players I can think of off the top of my head but I'm sure I've probably missed someone. There are a bunch of quality 3* players UT is looking at. One of the 3* OL's out of La is apparently more of interest than some of the 4* guys they are in on.

The sky hasn't fallen yet.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

McClain is the kid from AL I think.

Posted by VolnDothan on January 16, 2008 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is turning into the worst recruiting year in 15+ years. I'm not sure exactly what the reason could be, but it's happening! I've been sitting back watching this season unfold with athlete after athlete spurning the Vols. I hope we finish strong to salvage some talent...

Posted by jdcvols on January 16, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Abrams Ward is a good player and is close to the Wardlow family so we have a shot. Living in Winston Salem is interesting, there are many UT fans here and the others like tarheel01.

Posted by CatScratchFever on January 16, 2008 at 11:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

VolCR....who says that Tennessee needs to be like Florida? Or any other team for that matter.

This is not about what everyone else does...this is about Tennessee setting a precedent for what is not acceptable behavior at this university. Who knows, maybe other schools will follow.

If Fulmer or Hamilton do not have the backbone to do what is right for the flagship Tennessee university, then their employement should be terminated.

There should be no second-chances for anything that is drug related. They knew the rules before becoming a UT player....there actions are inexcusable.

Posted by CatScratchFever on January 16, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

VolCR. Certainly you are right that a school would be setting themselves up for a possible competitve disadvantage until the NCAA, the SEC and others caught up. That is why I say set a precedent for others to follow.

As far as Kentucky or ANY other school goes. This applies to them too. No second chances for drug-related offenses.

Posted by jmatt62 on January 16, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt, You're right about it not being as bad as it seems, but you have to admit this year we're not getting any big names at all. That has never happened at UT as long as I can remember.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

VolnDothan. I don't know how closely you've watched recruiting but I've watched it fairly closely over the past 5 years or so. This isn't a great year... and comparatively COULD be the worst on paper in 15 years. Great players spurn UT every year... because UT gets considered... much better than schools that can't even get on a kid's list.

However, UT often closes strong. Out of state recruits that don't choose the instate school very often take all their trips before deciding. Most recruits are alot more impressed with UT after visiting. Some see the facilities, support, and coaches and fall in love. Most report that the coaches and players recruit them with alot of honesty and integrity (which makes the pot incident even more disappointing).

If UT finishes with all 3* players, there's a decent chance they'll end up in the top 25. If they can land 3-6 4* kids they should get into the top 20... which will be a nice year considering the emphasis on depth and linemen.

Posted by ggriggs939 on January 16, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Score another for the KPD. Maybe it's still not too late for UT to leave Knoxville.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jmatt, part of that has to do with the fact that most of the buzz is usually about RB's, WR's, QB's, and LB's. None of those except for maybe LB are a high priority this year.

UT has the RB they've wanted for a long time- Poole. If I heard correctly, he was poised to be one of the top RB's in the country after his Jr year but was then slowed by a lower leg injury. It seems he's been at or near the top of UT's RB board all year.

UT dropped a FL WR commit who was a 3* after they got Wilks. They've recruited some of the top players nationally but will probably be completely satisfied if they don't sign any more WR's. QB was never a priority.

If they get Thompson, Abrams-Ward, Curtis, and/or Witherspoon, those would be some high profile guys. They have a decent shot with all of them.

McClain and Page are highly regarded OL's. I think McClain would like to go to Bama but there's some question as to whether they have room for him or not.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe that Witherspoon, Thompson, and McClain are in Rivals top 100.

The telltale was probably that UT didn't have alot of high profile kids visit for actual games. Game day activities really help UT and I haven't heard why it didn't happen this year.

I think UT will sign a couple of DT's at least out of a group that includes: Thompson, Askew, and Wadley. There are several guys that could eventually bulk up to play DT... maybe even Austin Johnson who supposedly has a good motor and a frame that could carry 290.

Posted by missrvrvol on January 16, 2008 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Um, a recruit with 2 current players get cited for misdemeanor marijuana possession will on a official visit? Yep, all is well on the Fulmer watch.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You are right as always misseryvol... No other school has misbehaving players or players that have made similar choices... and maybe gotten away with them. It is only UT and ONLY while CPF is coach. They should fire him and drop the program.

It is a VERY serious issue but for you to lay it all it CPF's feet is ridiculous. If it is a pattern or is repeated... then you have a case. That doesn't appear to be the case at this point.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 12:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Not my idea. It came from comments made by Johnson's HS coach.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Again, the possibilities I'm listing aren't from my direct knowledge. They come from guys who have proven over time to be good at predicting and analyzing UT's recruiting.

For all I know, they won't even fill all their open slots or will fill them with more risky project players.

I never said that it was a great year or would definitely be even a good year. I said the sky hasn't fallen YET.

Posted by missrvrvol on January 16, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18..my apologies...you are correct. I assume Coker was dismissed because he did not send a xmans card to the Fulmer family. Hey I am actually not wanting Fulmer fired cause it aint going to happen. And I am excited with the new hires. My concern was the lack of discipline pre-Cutcliffe(2006) on and off the field and a return to those days. But yes, Fulmer should be held responsible, after all he is the Head Coach.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Again, the possibilities I'm listing aren't from my direct knowledge. They come from guys who have proven over time to be good at predicting and analyzing UT's recruiting.

For all I know, they won't even fill all their open slots or will fill them with more risky project players.

I never said that it was a great year or would definitely be even a good year. I said the sky hasn't fallen YET.

Posted by grantck on January 16, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anyone need any more proof that Fulmer doesn't get to know his players very well? How foolish to let a Pot head host a wanted recruit!!!

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

misseryvol, That's all you really had to say. I don't see a return to the pre-2005 discipline failures because CPF and MH would be out of a job if it did.

As long as he and MH are administering the policy and doing everything they can education wise concerning those issues... all IS well of CPF's watch. He can't prevent it from ever happening.

I can't believe the incredible stupidity of what those kids did... especially with the recruit there. But do you really, honestly think it had anything to do with any ambivalence shown by CPF on the subject of drug use?

These kids were there when maybe UT's best athlete was given the heave-ho for failing drug tests... Is there any stronger warning that could have been given than that?

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

grantck, How much do you know about these kids? Everything I've read or heard about Jones is inconsistent with his being involved in this incident.

Posted by missrvrvol on January 16, 2008 at 12:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt,
I am in the military so all I know is what I know. For me, I know the cost of breaking the law. Now I do not advocate these principles in the public sector, but I guess if a player knows that he has 3-4 chances of screwing up, then it may be worth the risk. Do you think CPF will hand out any punishment for this?
Recruiting is tough and I just hope this incident did not make it tougher. GO VOLS!

Posted by TrueVolFan on January 16, 2008 at 1:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The easy thing to do is kick a kid off the team for making a mistake. It's much harder to help an individual learn from their mistakes. You "teach" them. I mean, that is part of what they're in college for isn't it, to be taught? You don't kick a kid out of class for failing a test do you? No, you teach them the right way and help make them learn from their actions and better themselves as people. It's not o.k. to do drugs! No excuses need to be made for these guys, but you don't just get rid of a problem, you correct it! As for the recruits, they already have character issues that need to be addressed, hopefully the staff at Oklahoma will help them when they get there. We don't need to go after kids that are already showing bad judgement. It's one thing to have to fix your car when it tears up, it's another to buy a car that is already boken down. Lets get some kids with a little character already being shown.
GO Vols!!

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 1:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think UT is enforcing the rules per policy and guideline.

I don't know how it is now but back in the day, UCMJ and DOD directives allowed for varying levels of punishment before a SM got a dishonorable discharge. A commander even had the authority to consider MOS before booting someone.

I had a cousin who was a Nuc Elec in the Navy. He and some friends wanted out and somehow knew when they were likely to get tested. The rest got booted... he got an Article 15, confinement to quarters, and lost half his pay for 2-3 months.

I honestly don't know if there's any additional punishment like running steps, curfews, room restrictions, etc... but there should be.

Yes. This couldn't have possibly come at a worse time or under worse circumstances.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

TVF, One of the weird things about all this is that Jones was supposed to be a kid with really good character and a level head. We don't know and probably won't know the details of exactly what happened so I guess we'll just have to wait and see if these guys get back on track or lose a great opportunity.

Posted by mtnbikrtn on January 16, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

With apologies to Merle Haggard, "We don't smoke marijuana in Muscogee, but we do when we're in Tennessee."

Posted by TrueVolFan on January 16, 2008 at 1:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think it really comes down to being exactly what coach Fulmer said in his statement, this is an example of young men making really stupid choices. It's going to happen, kids are going to do dumb things from time to time. I'm sure there is alot going on behind closed doors with these two. Just because coach Fulmer doesn't see the need in telling you and me exactly what the punishment will be, don't think they aren't jumping through a few hoops to get back in his "good graces". I just don't believe it's that easy. Coach is more private when it comes to handling things involving his "young student athletes". We don't need a bunch of media coverage and repeated stories about the offense, the punishment, the rehabilitation, the extra steps they had to run today, the fact that they had to stay behind after practice and sweep the locker room, that isn't needed. He will do what he feels is needed to get these kids to understand and exhaust every possible option and if it still doesn't work, THEN he will do as he's done before and dismiss them from the program.

Posted by GreerVol22 on January 16, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

4jesus, said germs, 'meant germs...momma always said germ is as germs does...

seriously though, we have not landed anybody to speak of except a couple of local boys that would rather die than go somewhere else. May not need a QB or a TB, but can darn sure use a big reciever or two and some linemen...but there seems to be no interest their either.

My point is, somebody is better than nobody and right now were barely above the nobody mark.

Posted by h_charles on January 16, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

CPF supporters can spin this class all day long. The bottom line is that it is ALWAYS better to have a higher ranked class than a low one.

There will be mistakes. There will be overachievers. There is a reason that the BCS bowl teams are ALWAYS top 10 classes however.

Talent is talent, plain and simple.

Perhaps this class will turn around. Perhaps not. We have to wait and see, and CPF does close strong, but we have NEVER been this far behind the game at this point. A bad CPF class at this stage is a #25 ranked class. This year we aren't even in the ballpark.

What is troubling is that CPF struggles to beat the great SEC programs with better talent. Right now UGA is recruiting like UT used to. UF is on a whole other level.

IF you put 2 and 2 together, the long term prospects of UT returning to greatness isn't great.

Posted by thesavageorange on January 16, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

grantck ,There were 110 players on UT's roster this yr.That being said sometimes you have to take people at face value.If Fulmer didn't know his players then none of the past players would swear by him like they do.However ,I will admit that I thought it was a mistake to have these freshmen hosting.sjt18 ,(or anyone else for that matter)know why schools don't have Jr's And Sr's hosting these recruits?The only thing I could figure was the OK connection w/ Jones.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That's what I would suspect Savage. I'm pretty sure Meachem hosted Jones because of the OK connection. Usually it is a good idea.

h_charles, I don't disagree that it is preferrable to have highly rated classes. OTOH, are you sure about the BCS participants? Hawaii and Kansas are two that come immediately to mind that have probably never had a top 25 recruiting class. I agree that UH didn't deserve to be there but KU proved that they were.

UT's avg classes over the past 3 years are as good or better than UGA, Illinois, WVU, VT, KU, and even tOSU.

Even if this class doesn't get to the top 25 which I still believe it probably will... one off year will not sink the program... especially after last year's class.

AND for the UMPTEENTH +1 time, Warren, Morley, and Faison could be among the best newcomers in the SEC this year and none will count on UT's class ranking. Add two 5* players which Morley and Warren would undoubtedly be if they were JUCO transfers... and UT has a top 15 class right now.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

h_charles... since you are NOT a CPF supporter... you might want to give the guy his due. For one, he found at least 4 3* players last year that were immediate impact. Second, UGA and UF could recruit within a 100 mile radius and only take kids that grew up fans of their teams... and finish with a top 25 recruiting class every year. Both schools will routinely get 4* and 5* players who are diehard fans... that have several good players ahead of them on the depth chart.

For the situation he deals with, NO ONE recruits better than Fulmer. Disagree? Name one coach that has less in state talent but does better on a routine basis.

Posted by TommyJack on January 16, 2008 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

h_charles actually makes some sense.

Posted by pdhuff on January 16, 2008 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

TommyJack, watch that "sense" thing, easy there.
I'm still working on the Latin for "mental wanderings in orange" to make it the official motto for gvxtra.com. I know Kaplan would like it. We all can be proud of our contributions.

If we don't make the top 25 in recruiting, the spin machine will crank up faster than a rooster after a hen. We'll have been recruiting "for need" and "already stocked" at other positions. The d-linemen issue will be buried under the need to score 38.9 ppg next fall.

Not many "expert" procastinators have picked us very high this fall. What do they know. Little, I hope. A dozen bigarreau glazed, pls.

Posted by TommyJack on January 16, 2008 at 2:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PD: Mentalus Wanderamus sig hoc Orangeamus.

A dz. bigarreaus for you and 1 for the Big Boy.

Posted by bowerst on January 16, 2008 at 2:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I personally blame the drought. Probably affected the quality of the dope grown here, and we need to be able to compete with the Oklahomegrown. Pray for rain, and maybe we get 'em next year.

Posted by TommyJack on January 16, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

enuff with the dope already.

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

losvolsganan ,

Did you have a point to your comment? Probably not.

Posted by thesavageorange on January 16, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe in 98 we were pre-season ranked just inside the top 15.(I think 12th)In 05 we were pre-season ranked 2,3,or4 depending on which poll you go by.I have seen 3 pre-season 08 polls so far.One had us unranked.One had us 21st.The other had us 12th.The one common was the question surrounding the QB position ,and a break-away wide out.

Posted by tngeoff on January 16, 2008 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

An unnamed source has just revealed that the blame falls squarely on global warming combined with El Nino. Its expected to get worse. Much worse. Hopeless. Devastating. Excruciating. Apocalyptic. Armageddonish. Worse yet the problem is universally expected to bifurcate and become double trouble.

Posted by TommyJack on January 16, 2008 at 2:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Geoff: And Dubya is behind all of it.

Posted by tngeoff on January 16, 2008 at 2:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

TommyJack.

In that case we better pound the baklava!

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 2:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt and the rest of the folks...who cares about star rating. As you suggested, plenty of high quality contributors never got a high star rating. If I had the time...or no life I should say..it would be interesting to put together a list of 3 star or below players that A. Were stars at the college level or B. Were even solid contributors just to UT.

I know in the list you posted sjt, there were a lot of contributors. Would also be interesting to see how many 4 star or above folks didn't pan out. And getting kicked off the team for a disciplinary reason is just as good as being a BUST.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

VolCR, I already mentioned that 2006 wasn't a great year. Still UT finished with a top 25 class... which is what I said I "think" they'll do this year. They could do worse... and still pick up productive players.

The guy who I've learned to trust the most on recruiting stuff thinks that several UT commits are underrated.

Average the last 4 classes out... and UT is somewhere in the top 15.

Interesting that the #23 2006 class had the same average stars as UT currently has.

These rankings aren't exact. For the most part, you could lay a range of 10 places across a team. Any team in the top 10 could be the best... but # 10 could easily be as bad as #20.

No real spin necessary. People who follow recruiting weren't expecting this class to be highly rated. They stated up front that this class would add depth and focus on unglamorous positions.

Also IMO, DT and OL are the two least reliable ratings done by the recruiting svcs. Many of those kids never play the kind of competition needed to see where they really fit in.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Another interesting caveat about this year's recruit rankings. The NCAA imposed new rules about what kinds of testing schools could do at camps. They can't do 40's as freely any more amongst other things. The recruiting svcs are now depending on timers that are a lot less reliable than a college coach at a camp.

Posted by Brama on January 16, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I would have been worried if he had committed after the weekend they had when they were here on their official visit.

Posted by jevolball7 on January 16, 2008 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thinking as one does at that age,would you want to go to college for 4 years and worry every time you leave your dorm?This is a city of about 200,000 and about5,000 fat,under-educated,bored cops.Not a 18 year olds idea of cool.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anyone who cares to can look through the list VolCR posted for 2008. The first number is the current number of commits. The next 3 are 5* players, 4* players, and 3* players. The next number is the avg stars. The last number is the total points which I think is based on the Sparq rating plus some adjustment factors for the number of recruits each team has.

No team above UT has fewer current commits. Several, Minnesota for example, will all but certainly fall out of the top 30. Ok St is unlikely to hold out too.

If UT signs all 3* players to round out the class, they should still be right around 25th. If they end up with 5-8 4* players then they should be inside the top 20.

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 3:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by TrueVolFan on January 16, 2008 at 1:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The easy thing to do is kick a kid off the team for making a mistake. It's much harder to help an individual learn from their mistakes. You "teach" them. I mean, that is part of what they're in college for isn't it, to be taught? No excuses need to be made for these guys, but you don't just get rid of a problem, you correct it!

HMmmmmm, interesting viewpoint. Sounds to me like you feel it is college when young men need to start learning. Do you folks really think college is the time to make all of your mistakes? Is that how it is, everything is excusable until college?

You are right...people should be TAUGHT. But you are 100% wrong when you say college is the place that young men need to start learning. I do agree that it is a place for teaching to CONTINUE, but this should take place WAY before college starts.

This is the mentality that fosters the problems. Everything is forgivable until college. Then what...well, its forgivable some more...at least 3-4 more times.

Correcting the problem isn't just the responsibility of schools...its the job of the family to set the schools up for success.

Posted by CatScratchFever on January 16, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

CRVol. I considered what you said about the drug policies of other schools, namely the University of Kentucky. So I decided to contact them and ask about their policy. This was their reply.

For a first offense. The student is placed on probation for 1 academic year. They must complete 6-hours of drug/alcohol education at their own expense of $100. They must complete a drug/alcohol assessment at an approved drug/alcohol treatment facility. If under the age of 21, their parents are notified. This policy applies to any drug related offenses.

For a second offense. The student is automatically suspended from the University for one academic year. They must complete an approved drug/alcohol education program and assessment before applying for readmission. If under the age of 21, their parents are notified. If the student was selling or distributing illegal drugs, they will be suspended on the first offense.

For a third offense, the student may not reapply for admission for a period of 3 academic years.

I believe this policy was adopted after a fatal alcohol related car wreck several years ago involving a U.K. football player.

This is one of the more strict polcies I have found thusfar. But I hear there are other similar policies and some that have a zero tolerance.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

VolCR, if the rankings or ratings were written in stone then you'd be absolutely right but they aren't.

Last year UT signed these 5* players: Donald, Vinson, Berry, Martin, and O'Neal. Vinson was signed as a WR and flopped there before moving to CB. O'Neal couldn't earn PT. Martin even after the injury healed didn't come along as they'd hoped. Donald was RS'd.

Only Berry was an immediate star. The only other one of those that outperformed Rogan was Vinson. One is already widely viewed as a bust though I think he could still make noise with a different QB.

Brama, the worst thing that could have happened after that incident would have been for those two kids to commit to UT.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW, who was UT's best DT this year even after they got it together? Fisher, Bolden, Mapu (all 4-5* players)?

Nope. Dan Williams... recruited as a 3* offensive lineman.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

VolCR, you are dead on with that last comment. Many of these kids don't come from ideal homes.

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

VolCR,

I completely agree. HOWEVER....look at the movement of equality over the last 40+ years. The movement is to become equal and give equal opportunity across the board. Unfortunately, the reality of life is that most folks don't want things to be equal...they want things to be preferential.

I don't know that there is even such a thing as a "typical American family". Nowadays anyone can be from a single parent home, a divorced home, an abused home, a lower income home, etc and still be deemed as "typical".

If these athletes aren't getting the structure they need other than sports, then maybe they need people in their lives before College to help them if their parents can't help.

Posted by CatScratchFever on January 16, 2008 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

marc_ash. Excellent post. I think we do no service to the student if they are continually allowed to get away with inappropriate behavior/lifestyles...particularly when it comes to anything drug related.

Instead of lowering the institution's standards, perhaps the aspiring student/athlete should raise their's

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt, so they didn't come from ideal homes....and? I didn't come from an ideal home either and I own my own company and completed a Masters degree. My single mother and I were evicted from the projects of all places when we lived in Las Vegas.

Again, this is a society that preaches equal opportunity...and thats what you have to give is that equal opportunity. There are so many people that had nothing but didn't turn to drugs-etc. I'm sure you've read Isiah Thomas' story. That is just one example of someone that didn't come from a "typical family". Well, it was typical to him...and he made the best out of his life.

Posted by pdhuff on January 16, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18 - I have to agree with Volcr (3:07) on one point. That a top 25 will have us lagging behind many other SEC conf schools. The reason for this I'm not privy to, but something is afoot here. We aren't going to have the 5* players, bust or not.

It maybe coaching turnover or more competition from other HCs. One cannot deny that we are not where we usually are. I have watched the AJC top 100 for years and cannot remember a time when we only have one. None of Rival's top 100. Its hard to explain that away, whether they are 3*, 4*, 5*. You have to get the 3* first to be able to coach them up. It is a concern in 2008 from this country boy's perspective.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What is probably needed is a universal rule in the NCAA... that was strict and prohibited a kid that had violated the policy and been kicked out from going to another school. Even when they get kicked out for drugs, they can still go somewhere else. If they knew their careers could end then they might take it more seriously.

The NCAA should conduct the testing to ensure teams didn't cheat. Every team should get at least one test per season... preferrably at an away game to prevent advanced notifications and false samples.

Posted by bigbluevol on January 16, 2008 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

marc, you're probably right, they probably do need those people in their lives before college. However, they might not encounter them. They might not have an opportunity to meet them until they get to college. There are plenty of people that I know that grow up the most in college because they are on their own for the first time. Like it or not, part of growing up is learning from mistakes. That doesn't mean things should be tolerated, but it also doesn't mean you cut ties at the first sign of trouble.

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

2008 recruiting, the top 4:

1 Notre Dame 22 3 14 5 3.91 2,629
2 Alabama 26 2 15 7 3.65 2,442
3 Georgia 25 2 14 8 3.68 2,386
4 Miami 27 2 11 6 3.26 2,122

When the top 2 schools finish a combined 8-16 something has to be afoot on why a recruit chooses a certain school.

Posted by spam247buster on January 16, 2008 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I guess Merl Haggard was wrong about what they don't do in Muskogee.

Posted by 99gator on January 16, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tenn still has time to finish with a decent recruiting class. hard to reel in the recruits with such a turnover within the coaching staff. if tenn is as young and talented as everyone suggests...they can stand to have one bad recruiting year and be able to recover.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

pdhuff, I don't disagree that it is a down year. I don't think that's avoidable at this point... but relatively speaking, 23rd is a down year for UT and a banner year for even teams like Missouri or Kansas.

If I had to guess there are a number of factors: recruiting by need does effect ranking, difficulty to recruit behind the 2007 class, coaching changes, in-state talent drop off, emergence of Bama and UNC as recruiting forces, etc.

The coaching changes came right as the big push would have been starting... and just in time for the nation's number 1 player to lose all interest. Had Pryor committed, he'd have brought friends.

The biggest reason that UF, UGA, LSU, USC, Texas, etc can recruit past last year's class is that so many great prospects grow up fans of those schools in-state.

Think about Demps as an example. His opportunity to play next year is much greater at UT than UF... but he grew up a Gator fan and momma will be close enough to watch every home game.

UT just missed on a 4* athlete from Pa. He signed with Pitt because it was close to home.

Owens and McGee were OU boys.

All of these problems are overcome by UT often... perhaps just not this year.

Again, it hurts more than we might even know not to have someone like Berry or Donald recruiting the Army AA game for UT.

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bigbluevol,

I agree with you. And as a parent, I view things in my own manner I suppose combining what I didn't like about my own upbringing mixed with the opportunities my own son has/will have. I agree, much learning does occur in college. However, the question here is the standard(s) that are set. Do we hold different students to different standards because of who they are or where they come from.

Most people will say they want equality and to be treated the same. But it appears that at some point a standard has to be set. Not a standard for athletes or minorities or people that are under 5'3, but a standard of equality across the board. One that is fair and consistent....period.

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

marc, ND's success really is a mystery considering that Weiss would probably be gone if it weren't for that big fat contract. OTOH, they'll always pull well from the Catholic prep schools and those schools routinely produce good football players.

Miami would be in bad shape without those kids from Miami (Northwest HS?). There's about 7 of them that have decided to stay at home and resurrect the Hurricanes. OTOH, many Miami produced players have been pure ol' trouble off the field.

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

99gator

"hard to reel in the recruits with such a turnover within the coaching staff."

No its not, look at Urban Meyers recruiting classes after Zook left and the house was clean. May want to re-think that comment.

Posted by jevolball7 on January 16, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Breaking news: Airforcenone and Marcassare either engaged,already married or running on the old "just say no" ticket.Still trying to fight another unwinable war based on their opinions.Make them yours. LOL

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jevolball7

This just in. jevolball has nothing to add to the conversation and barely communicates in complete sentences. At least he can double space in between them. Or maybe not.

Posted by 99gator on January 16, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

marc_ash

urban meyer's 1st recruiting class was not very good.

reggie nelson (originally signed by zook. came to meyer as a juco)
jon demps
darryl gresham
simon codrington
brian ellis
avery atkins
kestahn moore
jonathan phillips
dorian monroe
louis murphy
ryan stamper
david nelson
eric sledge
nyan boateng
josh portis
eddie haupt
ronnie wilson
kalvin baker

most of these guys are no longer in school or did not contribute. i know you all are not gators, but that will make my point better. i assume you watch florida at times throughout the year and do not recognize several of these names

Posted by 99gator on January 16, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

did any of you all hear about major applewhite?

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 3:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

marc, 99gator will probably affirm that UF would have signed good classes no matter who the coach was. They have more talent within 75 miles of Gainesville that grew up doing the Gator chomp at Jr High dances than the whole state of Tn produces in a normal year.

It really hurts UT and other SEC schools for FSU to be down like they are. If they and Miami make a comeback and USF/UCF continue to progress then the shoe could easily be on the other foot in a couple of years. Every year Florida leaks good players to schools all over the country... and UF can afford for it to happen. If the instate schools get it together again then it will start to pinch.

Posted by jevolball7 on January 16, 2008 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My bad. Should've proof read. But then I just have a degree from this local univ. that you all constantly trash. I don't own my company. Guess that's what it takes to post like you.

Posted by 99gator on January 16, 2008 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18

i can give a list of current gators who grew up miami and fsu fans, but signed with florida due to the current state of the programs at miami and fsu.

in 2009, 4/5 of florida's starting offensive line will probably be made up of players who wanted to go to fsu and miami, but signed with their head and not their heart. there are others.

Posted by auttat on January 16, 2008 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Heard some rumors, what's up with Applewhite?

I don't watch every game FL plays, but I'm pretty sure I've only seen 3 of those guys take the field, 99gator.

Also, anyone else notice Mayo is not even on the radar on ESPN's draft coverage?

Posted by sjt18 on January 16, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Is it a done deal with Applewhite?

That could shift some things for Bama.

Posted by 99gator on January 16, 2008 at 4:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

auttat

i am hearing down in florida... that major applewhite will leave alabama's offensive coord post to become a running backs coach at texas. apparently, working for nick saban is that bad.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conten...

as a result, alabama may be losing some offensive recruits...and those uncommitted....like julio jones

Posted by thesavageorange on January 16, 2008 at 4:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Applewhite is a longhorn, and Cut did us a favor and snagged Saban's TE coach.

Posted by auttat on January 16, 2008 at 4:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Just searched that on Google. Here is the link I read.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/h...

Hey, I would go from Head Coach at Fl. to Grad Assistant at UT(ennessee). So, I cut the guy some slack.

(I may have exaggerated a little, but not much)

Posted by 99gator on January 16, 2008 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

auttat

you would probably consider it a promotion too

Posted by thesavageorange on January 16, 2008 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The word is he is that hard to work for, and is a sociopath.He is known to verbally assault his staff.Being as such he will never take the blame for the fall off last yr.He may say it to the AU folks, but in the coaching offices he is saying"how can you do this to me?I AM GOD"

Posted by marc_ash on January 16, 2008 at 4:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jevolball7,

No Jeff Ellis it doesn't take a Masters degree or being a business owner to know how to double space sentences.

It also doesn't take those things to be heard or respected...it takes class and not making rude comments about people being married because they don't agree with your point of view.

You also may want to be careful of who you accuse of "trashing UT" because I've never been one to trash a school I love and worked for 3 years.

Posted by spam247buster on January 16, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Casey Clausen was a freshman in '00.

Posted by auttat on January 16, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Promotion??? Maybe not, but it would be great to be back home!!

99gator, I actually don't hate FL as bad as I let on. Except for the fact that I absolutely never pull for them in anything, let alone sports, I kinda like you guys. I will say, the only thing prettier than the campus is the women walking around it.

Posted by TommyJack on January 16, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

marc_ash & jevol: Perhaps both of you guys are a little sensitive. Jevol, who are the ones that "constantly trash"? Pound the scone.

Posted by pdhuff on January 16, 2008 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

savageorange- 4:12 P.M- after some thought, I have concluded for $4,000,000.00 per annum, I would allow the Bamians to address me as God.

They would still have to genuflect when I graced their presence. One other rule would be that the mention of La-Monroe in any form would mean banishment to Sylacauga immediately.....

Posted by waterskier3 on January 16, 2008 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

this is my opinion... the teams that tn has put on the field since 2000 were not... repeat not good enough to win an sec championship... not one BCS bowl game and not one national championship. if that's ok with everyone then fine.... for me i expect to win 1 of 4( i.e. bufflo or minn viking) sec CG's I mean come on people how many times do you go to the dance and its ok to get beat???

the correlation between top ranked recruiting classes and championships are unmistaken that's why we want the best recruits and as many as possible...... your odds increase the more you have!!!!!