Have all the football staff changes at Tennessee doomed the Volunteers to an average recruiting year? Will Florida ever find a great tailback? Is the magic already gone for Steve Spurrier at South Carolina?
Those are a few of the SEC Eastern Division recruiting questions being tackled by a panel of experts as signing day looms on Feb. 6.
Included in this discussion are Tom Luginbill, national recruiting director for Scouts Inc., Nashville-based Rivals Radio talk show host Bill King, Scouts Inc. director of scouting Scott Kennedy and JC Shurburtt, columnist for the South Carolina-based website, TheBigSpur.com.
1. Tennessee is not even close to being projected as having one of the nation's top 30 recruiting classes. Why don't the Vols have more early commitments? Have the staff changes set them back?
Kennedy: "They have talent at Tennessee already. The level of coaching and development needs to get better. It doesn't hurt for them to bring in some good old-fashioned football players. They may not have a lot of stars to their names, but they need to bleed orange and white."
Luginbill: "Having to fill four spots on the coaching staff put their recruiting in a real holding pattern. When you have that change and uncertainty, kids start to waver, they wait and see what happens and before you know it they fall in love with another place.
"The No. 1 thing that hurt Tennessee was David Cutcliffe leaving for Duke, because Terrelle Pryor (the nation's No. 1 ranked high school quarterback from Jeannette, Pa.) had Tennessee as high as anybody on his list, maybe at the top.
"Tennessee didn't have a lot of early commits, but recruiting is a marathon, not a sprint."
King: "Tennessee is having a well-below average recruiting year, and it could end up that way.
Losing Cutcliffe hurt a lot. He was their best coach, their best developer of talent. I don't think Tennessee was doing well in recruiting before losing the four coaches, but losing those guys certainly hasn't helped.
The commitments Tennessee has doesn't resemble the level of talent that Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia and even Auburn is amassing."
2. Georgia has had the most stable staff in the off-season. Has that helped the Bulldogs' recruiting?
Luginbill: "I think Georgia's ability to recruit ahead of schedule, using the spring recruiting and its summer camp to get early commitments, has been a key. And then Georgia's success on the field helps keep those kids committed, and they never quit recruiting a kid even if he has committed. They have a recruiting class with some real impact guys."
3. South Carolina coach Steve Spurrier has had two average recruiting classes, but has made steady improvement in the win-loss record. Why can't Spurrier sign as many blue-chippers as he did when he coached Florida?
Shurburtt: "It's always going to be a struggle to recruit at South Carolina until it brings its facilities to the level of the other SEC programs and until it wins on a consistent basis.
"This past year, there was a five-game losing streak to end the season with a very young team. It brought up the question about the progression of the program. Last year's class was ranked in the top five nationally by ESPN, so there may have been some unrealistic expectations in recruiting this year. South Carolina is having trouble keeping the top in-state guys at home."
4. Will Florida ever recruit an SEC-caliber running back, so quarterback Tim Tebow won't have to run 20 times per game? Last season, the Gators picked up USC transfer Emanuel Moody, who becomes eligible this season.
Kennedy: "We'll see how Moody does, if he touches the ball 25 times and rushes for more than 1,000 yards. If he does that, it will be a lot easier to prove to other running backs that are being recruited that they will be used."
King: "Emanuel Moody is a good back. Florida has to show to recruits that using a running back to run is a viable option in its offense. It's the old theory that perception is reality. Even if Florida's coaches don't necessarily endorse the theory that the tailback is not a prominent position, that's the perception. The only way to change it is running backs churning out big yardage."
5. Kentucky offensive coordinator Joker Phillips has been named head coach in waiting, the guy who will take over when Rich Brooks retires. Brooks' contract expires in 2011. What does all this mean for UK's recruiting?
Luginbill: "It shows stability, it gives kids the idea that the infrastructure of what has been a successful program the last two years will continue when Rich Brooks steps down. You don't make a move like that unless you're an aggressive, hard-nosed recruiter who has been able to draw quality players consistently."
King: "Joker is a Kentucky native, he played at the school and he has drawn paychecks from UK for a long time. He understands that program and that state. If you coach Kentucky, you can't just come from anywhere. You better understand exactly that the state doesn't produce much high school talent and understand on the importance ladder you are behind basketball. If you understand that, then you can overachieve in recruiting and do what they are doing now."
6. Vanderbilt signed a couple of players last year that were on the recruiting lists of the major SEC powers. Will that happen again this year?
King: "It jumps off the sheet at you that it won't happen again. Typically, that's about where Vanderbilt is at. Vanderbilt is in the development business. They don't get the ready-made guy. They have to develop them. The key to Vanderbilt is to have a lot of fourth- and fifth-year guys. It's almost like a mid-major school in basketball, advancing deep into the NCAA tournament with a veteran team. You have a team that has hung around, taken a lot of lumps for three or four seasons, then they have that one year everybody gets together and they have a chance."
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Comments » 106
TommyJack writes:
Odd. No mention of naysaying posters affecting recruiting.
pdhuff#552644 writes:
TJ, 1:08. I'm going to get sjt18 to explain this to you in depth? Now, pay attention!
You are much more influential than you think.
Beat Bama.
budd#207344 writes:
Odd they don't say anything worthwhile
AllVol writes:
I just refuse to believe that there won't be a few surprises come signing day. Like someond said, Tennessee football is just too big and Neyland too big of a stage for anyone not to come. If, however, this turns into a really down year for recruiting, let's hope Phil and the new staff put together the pices we've got (and there are plenty), stay under the radar, and start kicking some ass come August 30.
chrisw2967 writes:
yea TJ sjt will pick this apart for you and give you first hand explanation.
TommyJack writes:
Please guys..don't stir up ole SJT. Anyways, he won't let his flock out of church til at least 3:30. lol
Vols1998 writes:
I do not think the posters of this website have any bearing on the recuits. I think Cutcliff really hurt UT this year. Why he wanted to go to Duke and not stay at UT has been a question of mine, but that is water under the bridge.
The new DC is our man and he will have to prove to next year's recuits that he can develop and succeed on the SEC field.
It does issue another question, why CPF does not bring the creditabilty to the team? Also, why doesn't the Chief bring in the 4 and 5 Star players, he has proven to put many players on the Sunday Football field.
I love my Vols, but sometimes I believe Knoxville does not have the attraction or the allure that Atlanta, and Florida schools offer to a young man....just some thoughts.
Go Vols!!
Vols1998 writes:
Top 30, 20 or 15, do we feel the needs of the team? What about DT and DE? also, I feel the need, the need for speed in the WR positions.
Does anyone have info on Nick Stevens? Is he good? can he run?
Go Vols!
TommyJack writes:
TD: Do you think Cut was "down" on Crompton, or just blindly loyal to Ainge?
dburgVol writes:
sphs_vol, I hope your right man, I've heard that story before on these posts, but I am an optimist and I find some in your post. Fulmer has always pulled a few rabbits out of the hat and I know that we are still in the running for some of these top-notch guys, but he better pull an elephant out if we are gonna have a top 15 class. Thanks for the sunshine on an otherwise gloomy recruiting season.
hglover40#234154 writes:
Do you think 3 more 4 stars and 7 more 3 stars will get us in the top 20?
hglover40#234154 writes:
Here we are on the rivals.com rankings -
39 Tennessee 13 0 3 8 2.92 668
Here's what it takes to get to #20 on the list -
20 Arizona State 27 0 6 17 3.07 1,265
So maybe 3 more 4 stars and 9 more 3 stars gets us even with Arizona State?
bullfrog07 writes:
I love it he said Tennessee has plenty talent needs to do better job coaching and development. I think most of UT fans agree with that statement.
rootin4volz writes:
Isn't it more important to take what we get in recruiting this, DEVELOP them into championship caliber players (which we certainly have the staff to do), and keep working the talented young studs we currently have? After all, a good season next year, and this recruiting season is nothing but a hazy memory. I'd much rather win an SEC or National Championship than some idiotic "recruiting" championship.
hglover40#234154 writes:
The statement below is insane - 2 of coach Fulmers last 3 classes were top 5 in the country.
"The biggest problem is that there’s not a high-level recruit out there who would rather play for Phil Fulmer than Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Les Miles, Mark Richt, or even Tommy Tuberville. These young men don’t see Fulmer as a coach who can develop their talents as well as the hot coaches in the SEC can."
AllVol writes:
I don't know, hglover40, I'm no expert on anything, but I have heard the pervasive suggestions over the last several years that Coach Fulmer just doesn't get the most out of his players--and I am a solid Coach Fulmer supporter. I am very much hoping that the new members of the staff will obliterate that suggestion's truth for recruits for many years to come.
Andm TouchDown, I belive that there will be some surprises because Tennessee finishing 53rd in the nation in recruiting would be tantamount to Appalachian State beating Michigan in Ann Arbor--it just couldn't happen!!
VolsorCat writes:
WTF! I am sick of blaming things on the coaches leaving, which is a BS excuse!!! I blame those coaches that were at UT for not having the recruiting on more solid footing before they left. Hell, they have been recruiting these guys since early last year. The former staff didn't get it done and have left it for the new staff to save the day. I have faith that they will bring in a solid class.
nikesportsfan writes:
Recruiting overall can be overrated. Many of your 5 and 4 star players turn out to be busts. Your basis of recruiting honestly has a lot to do with your 3 star players. Sometimes they have bad luck or haven't developed enough to become a 4 or 5 star player. They might turn into the 4 or 5 star player before its all over with. If not then they will likely fill their 3 star spot. Many of the 5 star players have huge egos that are easily destroyed. I think you can fall harder from a 5 star player to a 3 or 2 star player easier than you can go from a 3 star talent to a 4 or 5 star level of playing. I think its better to over-achieve than under-achieve when it comes to these players. UT has been in the top 10 the past few years and I do not see a national or even SEC championship here. Development and how the kids turn out is a bigger factor than any "ranking" is. Many of the kids will not step foot on campus this year or make it past their freshman year. I think everyone is putting too much stock into recruiting class rank. If they were struggling to pull in 1 star players and basically asking anyone playing high school football to come play here I would be concerned. 4 and 3 star players are not that bad and will turn out surprise many of you. Right now if they get a few more 4 star players and more 3 star players I could be happy.
mike_nolan66#244757 writes:
Vols1998, I didn't realize the University of Georgia was in Atlanta? Also, have you ever been to Gainseville... Not quite South Beach is it?
pdhuff#552644 writes:
TDTN-Good thing ol' Kennedy doesn't live around sjt18. "Level of coaching needs to get better".
Think he get a 413 page tome on, well everything..........
vol1994 writes:
Just a few points:
1. Yes we are missing out on a lot of good recruits this year. Fulmer agrees we need offensive lineman and defensive tackles. We did NOT land the ones we wanted- period.
2. skill positions- Fulmer feels we have all the wide receivers we need for the next two seaasons so we really just recruited one guy- wilks.
3. def backs- recruited couple of 4*s but nothing materialized unfortunately but fulmer feels we are okay for two years minimum. we did recruit wilks who supposedly will get a larger look at defensive back (safety) than wide receiver
4. quarterback- FUlmer and staff feel we are okay there and did not really go after anyone. CUT recruited Pryor and yes Pryor likes Cut's style but Pryors wants to play no later than sophomore year. I serioulsy doubt we will land the other kid,baseball player, the one who will commit to UT or Arizona state
5. My feeling is that we would not have been in the top 10 recruting anyways as FUlmer feels we have depth in skilled positions.
*what does concerne me is that doug matthews stated this morning that we invited a kid or two this past weekend that has been off the radar screen. I.E.- since we have lack of scholarships we must fill the void with someone. A kid from Murfressboro, TN was mentioned and will be offered a scholarship. He will visit next weekend. I was on my way to church so I missed the kid's name.
As a fan I do understand we were trying to recruit the big uglies up front but it does concern me we are not landing most of them. And to hear the kids say they chose KY, etc over UT due to discipline issues concerns me!
hglover40#234154 writes:
Predictions -
Top 20 recruiting class THIS year!!
13-1 record next year, losing in the NC game, USC 20- UT 16.
After the NC game Fulmer receives another 5 year extension; hours after the announcement several "fans" who post here whine themselves to death.
CoastGuardVol writes:
Well I do wish that the recruiting ranking was closer to the top ten myself, but I tell ya. I would rather have one guy with three stars by his name than a team of five stars that dont give a rats tail about wearing the orange and white. Tennessee football has always survived. We are not all gloom and doom. I mean take a three star recruit with a five star heart and that my friends is contagious. Furthermore a five star guy with a bad attitude can spoil even the most promising of seasons. Last years class was top five, let them blossom and teach this class, and we will win championships!!
nikesportsfan writes:
I would take a 5 star player over a 3 star anyday too, but getting a 3 star player isn't so bad is my point. You do not have to have a high ranking and have all 5 stars to have a good team. If you can get the 5 star players great, if not then go for the 4 or 3 star players. In the end you will likely have a similar caliber team as many of the 5 star players will not turn out to be what they were projected to be. Just pointing out the failure rate is much higher for the 5 star players than for a 3 star player.
DennisVols writes:
From ESPN:
"Despite a strong finish and 10-win season, speculation surrounding Phillip Fulmer's future (he was recently awarded just a one-year contract extension) and the departure of offensive coordinator David Cutcliffe, who was instrumental in attracting interest from some prize recruits like Terrelle Pryor, could be hurting on the recruiting end."
Yes the negitive talk hurts. How much we may never know. Thunder sent a letter to MH earler in the season critizing him for not publicly backing Fulmer that it might hurt the recruiting process.
Lack of stability is always hurtful when recruiting talent. Player want to play for those who recruited them.
Lets hope that a strong season in '08, with the new offensive staff, will reverse the negitive feelings and strengthen the next recruiting class.
AllVol writes:
sphs_vol, I don't know who you are, (maybe the devil, himself), but I sure as he!! hope you know something no one else does. I cannot figure out exactly what is happening with the recruiting, but I do know that Coach Fulmer is eerily quiet, and I also cannot believe that one of the very top recruiters (staff changes aside) is suddenly unable to close the deals that have landed so many top ten classes (and we have to remember that last year's class had a great number od skilled positions available). It just doesn't make sense. Can't wait for signing day. Make 'em eat crow again, Phil. I believe in The Great Pumpkin!
stroker writes:
sphs_vol I hope you have inside info and that you are correct: I am going to save copies of your posts here , get up early and re-post them the morning after signing day.
nikesportsfan there is truth in what you say,if memory serves those great Nebraska teams were not the result of top 10 or even top 20 recruiting,rather the result of recruiting to fill needs.
99gator writes:
part of the reason why not to take the experts too seriously....
florida has averaged more rushing yards per carry, had more rushing td's and more rushing yards in a season than tenn in 2005, 2006, and 2007 (the meyer years)
tim tebow was only the starting qb in 2007.
i think florida can run the football....just because they don't do it conventionally does not mean it is a problem.
DennisVols writes:
TDTN
What makes you think UT has any more off field problems than anyone else? GA has had at least 10 drinking issues in the past 12 months, far more than UT. Utah had 2 players stabbed just two weeks ago following a house party, 3 PSU player just kicked off the team for fights and on and on.
This is not an isolated issue involving UT or Fulmer.
Kids today don't know the meaning of responsibility or accountability because our goverment decided in the late '70's to take that away and now you see it everyday in the news and not just with college athletes.
If you are foolish enough to believe that all the negitive talk concerning Fulmer did not hurt then you truly live with your head in the sand.
No it was not the only reason this recruiting season is huting but when you add ALL the factors together they begin to take their toil.
Don't kid yourself into believing that you have enough control that just your whining could destroy this recruiting class but with enough negitive feedback from a large number of people can and will have some weight on how UT is looked upon and you can bet your house that other coaches used it when recruiting those talented players.
dvolsdacious#585217 writes:
If Tennessee has a bad recruiting year next year, we will be another Nebraska. Hopefully, the powers to be will react fast.
DennisVols writes:
I am talking here and now.The last 2 years have shown a steady drop in off field problems involving this program while GA has had a steady increase. Yet they have a top 10 ecruitng class. So explain how the off field problem only destroyed our recruiting calss.
stroker writes:
UT Vols are right at the top if not the top with former players in the pros. So why would recruits with a vision for the next level overlook the Vols?
The above post:
"These past top ten classes have amounted to nothing" is not lucent.
hglover40#234154 writes:
jcvet -
Maybe bad coaching from 2000 - 2005 has made UT look less attractive to recruits, but the that problem went to Kentucky.
I say this bad year of recruiting is the WHINERS,HATERS, and NAYSAYERS fault. oh... don't forget ESPN.
Don't worry coach Fulmer will save us.
DennisVols - No College students got into any kind of trouble until after the goverment did something in the late 70's. WHAT??? I remember from history class that some college students were a bit wild in the 60's.
volunteer_cowboy writes:
we finally have gotten with new ideas and teaching tech. as for cutt leaving if any of you guys would of been offered a 900,000 dollar raise you would be gone too. i would work just for the raise he got. And touchdown TN you mean hardasty.
VolsorCat writes:
TDTN: You broke the rules. 4 posts in less than 10 minutes. Go take a break and email back and forth with 99Gator for a while.
PS: I trust that lifelong coaches and successful recruiters know more than we do about recruiting and even more than the experts running Rivals and Scout.
volunteer_cowboy writes:
also the reason were not getting the recruits is because the recruits are looking at the roster of 4 and 5 star guys that redshirted this past year and thats it, these guys know who these new coaches are we didnt hire them off the street, the casey kelly(qb) said he camped at richmond this past summer so he knows clawson
DennisVols writes:
hglover40
I nver said "no college student got into any kind of rouble until after the goverment did something in the late 70's.
What I stated was that we are seeing the increase in problems involving our youth because of what happened then.
And that is an undisputible fact. We had no Columbine's, year after year more stories of kids commiting crimes at a higher rate. Just last night a story here in Atlanta of a middle school girl attacking her teacher.
There is a growing problem in our countru as a whole involving teens that grow up with a complete lack of responsibility. It is showing up more frequently in sports and in everyday life.
We should all be concerned, not just because our college football or athletes in general are making more stupid decisions than before but that our youth as a whole are now responsible for a higher % of the crimes in this coutry than ever in our history.
dvolsdacious#585217 writes:
With new coaches in South Carolina, Alabama and Arkansas, we can forget about the cream of crop in those states. Kids in those states dream of playing in-state. I do not feel that kids in Memphis and Nashville dream about going to Knoxville.
GerryOP writes:
I think the loss of Trooper was more significant than anyone realizes -- in terms of recruiting AND discipline. Also, from the outside looking in, it appears that Fulmer diss'd Taylor and the players saw that. Not a good thing.
pms151 writes:
DennisVols,
Are you advocating any solution you might want to share?
pms151 writes:
By the way since I do not get the local news here, has anyone heard when CPF going to make a statement about the latest incident?
dburgVol writes:
sphs_vols, can you give me a guarantee? I really do believe that Fulmer will pull some out of the hat, but regardless, I AM STILL AN ORANGE BLOODED VOLUNTEER! Im no Fulmerite of Foolmerite. Yes I believe Fulmer is a great coach, but above all else, I believe in these guys that have sacrificed so much for UT football. If they dont make it to the top 20, I will still love UT, and not criticize every dadgum coach, play, or player. I hope that they do, and I would love for them to be no.1 every year, but even if they go 5-6 again, they will still be my team. Thanks sphs_vol, I will take your word, and support my team and these coaches regardless.
pms151 writes:
VCR
The programs you mentioned had recruits that were not going to go there if the old staffs stayed. Now that they are gone it became attractive for them to reconsider. The opposite is true with us.
GreerVol22 writes:
To reiterate my second point on why we are not getting recruits from my post on another story. Check out the ESPN video about quarterback play at the senior bowl.
Henne, Brennan, Woodson, even some nobody from Delaware were named.......not one word about EA despite him being named the offensive MVP for the South...
Also, from ESPN SportCenter this am on UT/UGA basketball...nice comment about Lofton and his 3's, but made fun of him on the bad miss and degraded Pearl for wearing orange and a snide comment about intelligence at Tennessee...
DennisVols writes:
My solutions would seem a lot more simplier in words than what actions will need to take place.
Accountability & Responsibility. Sound simple but after 4 decades of not requiring it, it won't be easy to reinstall. Coach Bryant's style would not work for these kids today due to his strong stance on accountability and responsibility. One of his players once said that after running the tire course that Bryant approached him and asked "Was that as fast as you can do this?" It was a lose, lose question he stated because if he said it was then he was chewed out for being slow, if he claimed he could do better then he got chewed out because he did not give 100%. Can you even imagine a coach having that kind of demand on these kids today. Any of you ever get a whipping at home because you got one at school? Man I knew if I made stupid decisions I was going to pay for my mistakes. Now I made my fair share and I learned to not repeat them because I knew what the accountability would be. Old school some people call it.
Some will argue that we just hear about it more these days because of advances in media coverage but I remember how we were taught to respect others and ourselves and were made to pay if we did not.
There are H.S. players every year that have 4 & 5 * attached to their names that wind up failing to get admitted to the university they picked because they really did not have the education they needed. GA just 2 years ago lost 7 of their 25 scholarship offers due to this. It was considered one of GA all time best recruiting years prior to that point. "No child left behind" Yes lets pass a kid to keep him or her from feeling stupid. We learned if you were not good enough you did not make the team or the grades so we tried harder. Why should they now?
This years recruiting class could in fact become one of UT's best if they have the charcter to try harder, accept responsibility both on and off the field and hold themselve accountable. But recent history shows that more than one will come from a home where their athletic ability got them by more so than their common sense.
Hunter writes:
sphs and hglover are on some SERIOUS drugs......one has illusions of grandeur and the other is delusional. No, we will not have a mass exodus from other Southern schools to Tennessee on Signing Day. No, we will not run the table and lose in the NC game. Guys, you aren't drinking the orange Kool-Aid - you're snorting it through a straw! Sorry guys, but you are just out of touch.
I am a dyed-in-the-wool Vol fan, but even I can be realistic enough to acknowledge we are having a down recruiting year. Will Phil and Co. pick it up next time? I think so. Will we go from #53 to #15 overnight? Um, no.....
AllVol writes:
#53 or #15 ESPN can itself.
avolzfan4u writes:
can you say Peyton?
AllVol writes:
I believe you, sphs, I believe you. Praise be to Heaven, I BELIEVE! Glory, Hallelujah. Let it be. Let it be. Let it be. There will be an answer. Let it beeeEEE . . . .
pms151 writes:
DennisVols,
Good. Sounds like you put the ole thinking cap on. I would suggest to you that most of these kids did not grow up in the environment we did. Many are from poverty stricken one parent families and this is their first taste of being independent from that environment. Heroes in HS to a freshman on a large team of the same. So when they get here out of their sheltered HS past they haven't been disciplined before. Accountability and discipline is what they will either learn or not learn here. We have to deal with that reality as fans.
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