Posted by KingsportVol on June 19, 2008 at 5:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Don't let this one slip away. We are down to 48 DB's.

Posted by mtoms1272 on June 19, 2008 at 6:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are too many middle Tennessee kids going out of state. Fulmer needs to lock down this area of the state.

Posted by VOLS85 on June 19, 2008 at 6:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

what kingsport said...time to refocus recruiting...chavis should know how to pick up some DL's...or just get haynesworth come in town to threaten to stomp out the face of a DLiner if he thinks about going somewhere else.

Come on down Alby!

Posted by yemmusdarb on June 19, 2008 at 6:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

haha, nice one Kingsport.

We should just forget about an OL and DL and suit up 11 WR's or "all purpose backs" on offense and 11 DB's on defense. We haven't had a big time DT recruit since Demonte Bolden, and he has proven to be very over rated so far.

Posted by cjraney on June 19, 2008 at 6:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We need to sign double-digit DB's every year to keep the FireAnt D properly stocked up.

Does anyone else think we sometimes try to be too selective on DTs? It seems like some coaches just offer anyone with good size, get 'em on campus and see what happens. I like that approach.

Posted by vol_in_lsu_land on June 19, 2008 at 6:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have to admit guys, I don't know if the KNS purposely writes these articles in such a negative tone, but it almost sounds like this kid is talking about visiting UT Chattanooga instead of UTK, like he's just throwing us some crumbs and has no intentions of choosing the Vols. Wow. Com'mon Tennessee boy! Play for the home team.

Posted by pdhuff on June 19, 2008 at 7:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kingsport 5:59, Are you sure we only have 48?

I really like the "didn't want to overlook it".
What he would probably over look is the pines he'd be riding. But who knows.....

I still like my 2-9 defense, swarm em'. Make them get tired of 80 yard drives.

Posted by LiveFaith on June 19, 2008 at 7:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Refocus on recruiting? Guys c'mon, this is a news article from GVX. Like all news of the mainstream sort it is always imbalanced, distorted and made palatable for marketing purposes.

There were no quotes from Fulmer, Chavis etc, where they said a DB or DBs was the main or even major focus of recruiting right now. In fact all this reveals is that one of the top players in the state and major target of schools nationwide missed our camp but still has us on the radar. That's it.

What do you want to hear, Fulmer & Co say we don't need/want one of the nations elite because were solid at DB this year, and need DTs? Nonsense.

It's just a reporter meeting his quota and this story was accessable, and has a couple of jingles that resonate with locals. It's not a comprehensive report on the status of recruiting. It's OK to back up, think a little, and look at the bigger picture rather than getting a false impression that media stories actually tell the story.

Posted by Bigger_Al on June 19, 2008 at 7:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

pdhuff - Remember that Al Wilson was a DB when he was recruited. A lot of our DB recruits grow into LB's.

Posted by invisiblekid on June 19, 2008 at 7:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Fear the Buzzard...Fear the Buzzard fellas.

As far as Gordon goes, my bet says he goes to Bama. Not showing up to the camp isn't a good sign.

cjraney, it may be that they are selective but I wonder if they may have missed the mark in evaluating some guys recently. Brimfield, Shaw and Richard were all moved to the O line. Hall and Williams have yet to make it onto campus and Melancon is at a directional school in LA. Garretson was dismissed for the ever popular violation of team rules. Right there is 7 DL prospects from the past 3 years that either: weren't good enough to avoid the switch to O line, or didn't make it to campus.

Posted by vol4jesus on June 19, 2008 at 7:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol85 out of line! What Haynesworth did was cheap and if memory serves me correctly he did a little NFL time for his inexcusable behavior.Nothing cute or funny about that! Next time think when system gives you or me time to edit before we send our comments. We want quality athletes with solid character(good kind) to represent my alma mater!

Posted by dvols on June 19, 2008 at 8:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

who is the coach at hillsboro?

Posted by thesavageorange on June 19, 2008 at 8:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dvols ,Scott Blade.

Posted by dvols on June 19, 2008 at 8:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ok, what about hillwood?

Posted by dvols on June 19, 2008 at 8:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ok, what about hillwood?

Posted by thesavageorange on June 19, 2008 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Our very own Mose Phillips is head coach at nearby Hillwood HS, trying to resurrect a stalled program.

Posted by TurboFan on June 19, 2008 at 8:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I-kid, curious why you say not showing up at camp wasn't a good sign. Tennessee had already offered him. Don't most kids go to these camps in order to get an offer?

Posted by dvols on June 19, 2008 at 8:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hell yeah! mose is who i was thinkin of. he will get it going. probably still pushin his hooptie to work!

Posted by grvol on June 19, 2008 at 9:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What time is it Mose?....Time to beat FL's a__ again!

Posted by invisiblekid on June 19, 2008 at 9:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Turbofan, he attended the AL camp on June 9 instead of the UT camp and they had already offered as well if I understood correctly. Also making some uneducated inferences based on his comments. Seems like if he was serious about making a decision to be a Vol, he'd want to spend as much time with the coaches as possible.

Posted by GerryOP on June 19, 2008 at 9:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree i-kid, I make the same "uneducated inferences" you do! He doesn't sound like our kind of kid. Probably go to the highest bidder -- Miami or FSU?

“I didn’t want to overlook it,” Gordon said of UT. “I wanted to give them some attention.” Well, thanks Mr. Gordon, we're really grateful.

Posted by mun4life on June 19, 2008 at 9:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kingsportvol,pdpuff, yemmusdarb. you guys are hilarious. lol

Posted by TurboFan on June 19, 2008 at 10:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I-kid, I totally agree that Gordon has little interest in UT. Got that more from his comments though than the fact he didn't go to UT camp. Didn't know he preferred the Bama camp instead. Guess it was a case of he was looking to be wowed by Fulmer rather than him wowing Fulmer.

Posted by burntorangeVOLffle on June 19, 2008 at 10:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have to admit that I don't agree with 99% of Kingsport's posts but that first one gave me a good chuckle.

Posted by Smallmike4pres on June 19, 2008 at 10:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What, he's not being recruited by Chickamauga State & Kisseemee City College? Are we sure we want to recruit this guy?

Posted by wtnvol on June 19, 2008 at 10:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Scout article says he didn't really participate in the Alabama camp either although he was there for it. There's no reason for a player to attend a camp if he's already got an offer...makes me wonder if he wasn't just "struttin'" a little bit around the recruits who were busting their butts to try to get an offer.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 19, 2008 at 11:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I gotta say...I can't believe we're not comparing something to the Gators in this article. Some of the Florida posters have good things to say and I'm glad for much of their input. However, I'm ready to talk UT football. Maybe we just need go find some obscure article in the archives and post there. Of course 300 additional posts on an old thread may be too obvious. Really, I'm getting tired of all the Gator/Vols comparisons. There is more to UT football than UT vs Florida. It's just one game/one team on our schedule.

Posted by RichRollin on June 19, 2008 at 11:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We gotta get this kid!! Then put all our eggs in a basket for Marlon Brown.

Posted by RichRollin on June 19, 2008 at 11:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We gotta get this kid!! Then put all our eggs in a basket for Marlon Brown.

Posted by VOLS85 on June 20, 2008 at 12:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jesus,

it was a complete joke...read over my comments in the past and you will see that I am not one to hate on our players or be unsupportive of our university as I am a recently graduated alumni and very proud of its accomplishments on the academic and athletic side. Remember that Haynesworth did this after UT, therefore there was nothing that Fulmer or UT could have done to prevent this...please try not to take my comments so seriously, though I do appreciate your concern. It was merely a joke!

I'll be there on September 1st at UCLA, sitting in the coliseum and cheering on my Vols!

GO BIG ORANGE!

Posted by DenmarkVol on June 20, 2008 at 1:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This reads like just another kid in love with himself. No way he's a Vol.

Posted by King53 on June 20, 2008 at 5:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

slow news day in Knoxville...when is the next Rocky Top League game?

Posted by pdhuff on June 20, 2008 at 7:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bigger Al 7:25, dang, TT beat me to it about Al W being a LB in high school. We should be ok at DB for the next 17 years or so if the current trend continues.

Posted by richvol on June 20, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If this kid really chose to attend Bama's camp over his home state's then we don't need him or want him.

The tone of the article leads one to believe he has a very high opinion of himself as well.

Another 5'10" defensive back...Tennessee needs to hire a former all-pro DL to recruit and develop big kids.

Posted by pdhuff on June 20, 2008 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

richvol 7:58, lose the logic. It does not apply to the masterplan.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's a fine public service announcement brought to you by our fine friends over at outermonvolia.com. This will make you throw up in your mouth a little bit.

http://outermonvolia.yuku.com/topic/2754

Posted by bowerst on June 20, 2008 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tennessee will need plenty of depth in the defensive backfields, because our d-line won't be able to slow anyone down, much less stop them. A 180-pound guy can only hit those 210 to 230-pound backs so many times before he needs a blow.

Football games are still won or lost in the trenches and I don't see us matching up very well with the big boys in the SEC.

Posted by 99gator on June 20, 2008 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

vol13

that's a bad news, bad news proposition.

it will probably show more in 2009 and 2010 than in 2008......which is after fulmer gets his raise and contract extension.

i have plenty of respect for tenn as the games since 1998 have been very competitive, especially in knoxville.

but, every preseason publication, national guru, or local sports talk personality (granted i live in florida) treats tenn like an after thought.

if the vols have a 2005 type of season (which i doubt, but almost happened in 2007) can they do anything considering the contract extension fulmer is about to receive.

Posted by 99gator on June 20, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

before someone says it, the games have been competitive since 1998 with the obvious exception of 2007.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

vol13, It isn't the least bit surprising you'd spend time on that pathetic site.

This does present an interesting quandry though for you Fulmer haters. Either he is a great recruiter and finding 3* that were actually as good as the 4* UGA and UF have been signing OR he's a better coach since he's been competitive with UF (except for last year) and has beaten UGA badly.

You can't have it both ways. Either he's a terrible coach being carried by great talent or he's a very good coach that can't get talent. Both can't be true based on scoreboard results.

Posted by 99gator on June 20, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

i'll ask y'all too......as a "what if"

the way tenn's schedule sets up....i will assume las vegas knows what they are doing.

tenn would be 3-3 and 0-3 in the sec (their first three sec games are florida, @auburn, and @ georiga). i don't think they will be favored in any of those.

would it be bloody murder on rocky top? because in my opinion, tenn is not going to get more than one win of those three.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt:

Pay attention, son! Yet again, you fail to understand what is actually being said. That's from 2006, 2007, and the 2008 signing classes.

From 2006, ONE signee is starting - McClendon (4 Star) and ONE 5 Star is in the DT rotation (Fisher). The only non-4/5 Star guys that play significantly are Daniel Lincoln (2 Star) and Luke Stocker (3).

From 2007, Eric Berry, Brent Vinson, and DeAngelo Willingham are starters (5 Star, 5 Star, 4 Star). The only other significant contributors from this class to date are Gerald Jones (4) and Dennis Rogan (3).

From 2008, Nobody since they are not here yet.

Not counting Lincoln, that's 4 starters from 2006-08. I'll confidently throw 2008 in there because there is nary a soul in that class that is going to start this year. Taking it one step further, that's 7 of 44 in the two-deep that actually play much at all. That's 18% of our starting lineup and 16% of our two deep. Where do you suppose the other 82% and 84% comes from? Why, the 2004 and 2005 classes!!!

Here's a breakdown for projected starters (not counting those above).

R. Foster - 3 star
A. Foster - 3 star
Parker - 3 Star
Briscoe - 3 Star
Crompton - 4 Star
McNeil - 4 Star
Scott - 4 Star
Rogers - 3 Star
Taylor - 4 Star
Ayers - 4 Star
Bolden - 4 Star
Wilson - 2 Star
Brown - 4 Star
McCoy - 4 Star
Morley - 5 Star
Williams - 3 Star

Posted by Brama on June 20, 2008 at 9:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sounds like we need this kid 5 10" 185 lbs . perfect size for a DB.

Posted by VolGraduate on June 20, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

99gator smells like cabbage

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 9:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

99gator, the answer is probably no. He'll be almost as insulated as Weis. That's why CPF shouldn't get more than a 5 year contract nor should he get a compensation increase that isn't designed as an incentive for winning the SEC or a BCS game.

I've defended him but he hasn't finished proving himself after 2005. He shouldn't be given what amounts to a lifetime contract until he does.

FTR, I don't think he will finish a 7 year contract. If he's successful, I think he retires within 3 years. If he's not, they can still withhold extensions for the next couple of years then buy him out. I think that's too long to wait but that may be the thinking.

A 7 year contract has one big advantage. Coaching competitors can no longer tell recruits that Fulmer is on shaky ground. That has to be one of the saving graces for Weis right now.

Posted by VolGraduate on June 20, 2008 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

so yall are saying we are going to lose b/c all the 3*s??? by your own admission we had a 3* running back last year who ran for over 1000 yds. Is that bad? What gives??? These recruiting stars are given too much credit. I would place my trust in the coaching staff before I would in a recruiting website.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol13, I have said more than once here that this year better be Fulmer's year. Many folks here and elsewhere were talking about next year being UT's year. I noticed and point out here quite awhile back that UT loses alot of Sr production after this year. They better take advantage of 08 and restock for 10. 09 could be a very rough season for the Vols.

That said, there are probably folks in the 07 class that will break into the rotation this year... but IMO it won't be enough until 10... and that does depend on the 09 class being fairly decent.

Posted by beachvol1 on June 20, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Say what you want, but Mr. Gordon is the real deal...have seen him in action and he is the kind of impact player that will get your attention...you like Mr. Berry, then you will love Mr. Gordon...

Posted by huntined on June 20, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Fla. has had one of the top classes with a lot of 5* ratings for the last few years and they did put a hurting on Tenn last year.. but they also lost 4 games and came in third in the east last year. But we all know you win as a TEAM and lose as a TEAM..TAKES A FULL 22 to win. LSU,GA,AUB,and MICH. beat Fla they did not have as many 5* as Fla but they had some and a good TEAM effort. But on any given day a total TEAM effort can win a game just ask MICH. about APPY STATE. who I don't think had a single 5*..

Posted by cjraney on June 20, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh my! Austin Rogers was a 4* recruit[per Vol13]? Guess that means no more criticism from you guys.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Continuing from above, the starters for 2008 (projected)....

5 Stars - 3
4 Stars - 10
3 Stars - 8
2 Stars - 1

Let's break down the 3 stars before anyone has a chance to glorify Fulmer for really being able to coach them up......

OL - Foster and Parker. Both have played great, especially Parker. The only 4/5 Stars available on the OL that are not currently starting are Sawtelle and R. Johnson (4). And neither should be starting over 2 seniors who are as good or better than they are.

RB - Arian Foster. Very nice career to date and has a chance to become the all-time rushing leader (which he should). Starting over 4 Star backs Hardesty and Creer (4). IMO, Hardesty has shown flashes of being a better back. But he's also had a slew of injuries. Creer has looked good with what we have seen of him. I agree though that Foster should be starting and you can't argue with his production.

WR - Briscoe and Rogers. I think both will start at UCLA. And I think that one of these guys will start the entire year. But I do think that one will give way to Gerald Jones at some point. He's too good to keep on the sidelines and he's more gifted than either of these. The only other 4 Star on the bench is Paige and I don't see him as a starter anytime this year. He's rail thin and I'm not sold on him until I see more of him in game play.

TE - Cottam. All of our TE's are 3 Stars unless Brandon Warren plays this year. No choice here but to start a 3 Star. Aaron Douglas is s 4 Star, but he won't be starting in 2008.

DL - All DE's are 4 Stars in the two-deep. At DT, Williams is only 3 Star starter. 4 Stars on bench....in rotation - Langley and Mathis. Neither has shown consistency and tenacity that Williams has to date. Overall though, we are woeful here and it's only going to get worse.

LB - Wilson. 4 Stars on bench - Myers-White and Chris Donald. MW is a senior and has done nothing to date. Donald is still young, but has done nothing to date. Both are alarming. I'll have to trust the coaches that Wilson is the best man for the job here. Loss of Mayo will be felt.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol13. I think your stats are great(better than KNS!), but I may getting the wrong point. It seems like you are saying the 04 & 05 classes were better. It's pretty normal for juniors and seniors to start IMO. Five recruits starting their first year on campus(most freshman, 1 Juco?) is outstanding from 07 class! Did not know G. Jones was a 4*. He should have been a 5*. Arian Foster was a 3*. I think it's obvious he should have been at least 4*. My point...you can't take too much stock in recruiting services. Look at Georgia, they have a lot of talent when compared to the conference and they sat at home during the SEC championship game last year. Finally, in '08 UT has laid the foundation for a VERY strong class this year if we can indeed land some 5*/strong 4* players at skill positions and DT(big IF there). I think it's interesting we complain that some recruits are 3* or 4* recruits. That shows how much Fulmer has raised recruiting expectations here.

TDTN (2:27)...I have to admit, that comment was pretty funny.

Posted by cjraney on June 20, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Those Outermonvolia #'s are encouraging...we're second in the number of 5* recruits, heh?

Posted by cjraney on June 20, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Please disregard 10.18 post...I can't read sometimes.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ:

Cliff notes version - 14 of our 22 starters for 2008 were rated 4/5* and 9 of those 14 were from 2004-05. So, yes - those two classes play a significant part for 2008 AND we lose a lot of talent after this year and we don't have 4/5* guys en masse to replace them with next year.

The only 3* guys who are starting because of being coached up, being better than advertised, overachieving, etc. are A. Foster, R. Foster, Parker, and Dan Williams. If we would have had more talent last year I don't believe that Briscoe or Rogers would have played much and I still believe one of them will be out of the starting rotation by the end of 2008. Conclusion - we are playing more 3*'s than in year's past because at some positions that is all we have to play. It's not like we have a ton of 4/5* guys that they are just beating out who are riding the pine.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol13. Here is what I hope/think will happen. Clawson's offense will be fun to watch - maybe not the first few games, but should be coming up to speed by the middle of the year. With so many coaching changes and a change at QB, it may be unfair to expect an SEC title this year. However, I said similar things in '98 and we all know how that year turned out. Back to the point, if his offense shows promise and production, the recruits will be here. We have great coaches, great fans, great facilities, a great university, and a tremendous track record of sending players to the pro's.

Addendum...How many 4/5* players did we sign in '07? You mentioned there may a big talent drop after this year.

Posted by cjraney on June 20, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

99gator@9.45-
People howled all the way through the SECCG last year and are already howling now though we're still undefeated. Sooo, what do you think the mood on Rocky Top will be if we go 0-fer in 1st 3 SEC games? Or 1-3 vs. FL,AU,UGA, & Bammer? There won't be a moving truck at Fulmer's house, there will be a whole line of 'em.

Posted by invisiblekid on June 20, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Turbofan and RichVol, just to back up what I stated earlier about Gordon attending Bama's camp:

http://tennessee.rivals.com/viewprosp...

GerryOP, glad to see someone agree with my uneducated inferences. Also thought the same thing in your last statement about being grateful.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

99gator@9:45. Just remember this. The pressure is not on UT this year after winning the SEC East last year - in maybe the East's finest year. Most solid football watchers KNOW this is a rebuilding year w/ new OC and new QB. There are at least two coaches in the SEC East who will be on the hot seat if UT manages to steal a win - and one of those teams will have to come to Knoxville. Hey, Georgia looked pretty bad early in 07 and went on to smash Hawaii in the Sugar. It's not how you start the race, it's how you finish. Take a look at UT's record when everyone expects them to lose. Additionally, I think UT's defense is a well kept secret. I watched the Wisconsin and LSU games last year, I can't remember when a UT defense hit that hard. Those players didn't just disappear after '07 and forget how to hit. They'll be back this year.

Posted by foreverorange on June 20, 2008 at 10:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This kid might at one point seriously considered UT but might see the 85 DB commitments this year as some competition.

Posted by invisiblekid on June 20, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

99Gator, 9:45, Fulmer is past the point of no return with some fans so there will be grumbles no matter what happens. If he goes 0-3 in the SEC games to start out, I'll be doing some of that grumbling myself but it's a matter of context. If they are competitive and lose, that's one thing, If they get drilled like last year against y'all, that's quite another. Ultimately, none of it will matter much. Barring unforeseen disaster, Fulmer will leave whenever he gets ready.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We signed 3 in 2007. All 4 Stars. We'll need to sign 18 4/5* players in 2009 and 2010 just to replace what we are losing. We have 8-9 ships left this year to give, with 2 4 Stars committed just to give you a ballpark of where we are. The past

With all due respect, we had some holes in 1998 (QB being the biggest ? mark). But the 2008 Vols roster pales in comparison to that one. We had HSAA's 3 deep at some positions.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I also meant to say that the past 2 classes we've signed 19 4/5*'s, with 16 of those being in 2007. So it is possible. But, remember that is just to replace what we are losing. I also expect Berry to go after 2009 so that's 20. And if any OL leave early after this year then that number goes up.

Also, Florida signed 36 4/5* players in 2007-08. About twice as many as we did.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Good ole Ashley. She brings nothing to the table in the way of debate so she resorts to all she knows how to do - throwing out insults. LOL!!!

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol13. I am not going to compare UT's program to Florida. When they win they East again, then we'll compare notes. There is way too much of that going on. Maybe we need to compare ourselves to UGA. However, all of those strong recruiting classes didn't get those two teams in to the title game last year. Now, obviously those teams didn't have their '08 classes. The recruiting will be there for UT. Fulmer usually finishes strong and I see no reason he won't this year.

Posted by LadyVolsEighTimes on June 20, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ, UT and Florida is far more than just a game, it is played so early in the season it really sets some standards both teams are evaluated from the rest of the year. Yes we ended up in Atlanta, but that took a great deal of mathmatics working out for us last year. I will admit that is a part of SEC Football, but I really believe as do most folks that at the end of the regular season UGA was the best team in the SEC and FLorida/LSU close behind.

This year a win against FLorida would be huge! I think Florida has a By week ahead of the UT game and we have UAB. UAB plays some of its best ball at Neyland, they are in the big time here and want to take down a big team.

99Gator, Depending on Fate and Injuries, I can see UT 2-4 (0-3 SEC), and I can when looking thru Orange Colored Glasses see them 5-1 (2-1 SEC). UGA is gonna be tuff in Athens or anywhere for that matter, then again who ever expected the Beat Down the VOls put on them last year.

I thought CPF's contract already had extensions thru 2013? Just no pay raise added a couple seasons back. I don't know what Tubby is making at Auburn, but Miles and Saban are both $4 Million plus, Meyers is above $3 Million. It appears that the pay scale in the SEC would at a minimum put CPF above $3 Million on his next Contract. UT has to pay the money if it wants Championships, be it to CPF or someone else.

Posted by 99gator on June 20, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rj vol....

understood. but, i don't agree about the pressure thing. i agree that expectations for tenn will be moderate and not through the roof.....

but, no one at georgia or florida wants to see mark richt or urban meyer go anywhere.

whereas, based on what i have read.....folks in knoxville want to see some sign that there is more than a 9-4 or 8-5 season on the horizon.

as an example, in 2006, georgia lost to vanderbilt and ky, and a year later finished 2nd in the polls.

no gator fan is all that concerned about the 2007 record, because of the youth of the team. just like no one was all that concerned about the future of the basketball program they were only able to qualify for the NIT.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ - If we would have played Auburn and LSU then we wouldn't have been in the title game either. Georgia won the East as well last year (co-Champs). But we got to go to the game due to the head-to-head tiebreaker. Funny though. I don't hear a soul from Georgia talking about how they won the East because they don't celebrate such un-accomplishments down there. You can't have it both ways. Any close observer of SEC football knows what the pecking order in the league was last year and we weren't at the top. But if you choose to celebrate Eastern Co-Champs, then by all means have a great party.

Posted by 99gator on June 20, 2008 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sorry for the last sentence in the last post. but, y'all get the idea

Posted by GerryOP on June 20, 2008 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

99gator, if we go 3-3 through the 1st 6? Coach Fulmer will go through his litany of "staying the course", "workin' like heck", "a 15 minute training session on tackling/running/throwing/ kicking/walking/spitting/whatever", yada, yada, yada.

Then ... tadaaaa! ... Pennington or Adams will write a column critcizing the program, Coach Fulmer will host a press conference expressing extreme hurt and indignation, we will win out (some games by the hair on our chinny-chin-chin), and we will play in an early morning bowl game on New Years Day! And the Fulmer battle will rage on for another off-season!

Posted by abnermc on June 20, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

He's 5-9, nuf said.

Posted by pdhuff on June 20, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

vol13, you apparently don't have your "Ghost Co- Championship" tee yet?

Those that dog the Dawgs might look at their final AP rating in 2007. They, however, have singlehandedly kept Phil in K-town by poor showing vs the Vols. And could do it again in Athens this fall.

Posted by GoVol on June 20, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Gerry - you forgot the infamous 'charting'!!!

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ_Vol, 2008 is the year UT has to make a move. They simply lose too much production headed into 2009. If they win it in 2008 then maybe you make a case that they can fill those holes for 2009. If they can't win with what they have this year then there is no good reason to believe they'll fill those holes and have improved results in 2009.

Vol13, I understand your point but you are putting alot of credibility in the star rankings. Remember at the end of the day the deciding factors are subjective. If they weren't then Rivals, Scout, ESPN, Lemming, and everyone else would rate guys the same. Waggner from last year got little love from Rivals or Scout. Lemming who actually scouted him in person said he was one of the top DB's in the class.

You might can make a case that 5* recruits have the talent to play their way into the NFL and other factors have to get in the way if they don't. That's probably true 70-80%. However the difference on Rivals between a 5.7 3* and a 5.8 4* is pretty nominal and almost completely subjective. It could be the difference in having an offer from USC or not. It could easily be the difference between going to a combine and not.

I'll give you just one example. Frazier will replace either McKenzie/MW or McCoy if he leaves early. In neither case will there be a huge drop off from an athletic standpoint. Frazier was easily a 4* talent and probably a 5* talent when he signed.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW, any claim to objectivity by the recruiting services goes out the window the moment they put a limiting % on how many 5* and 4* they give... and both of the main ones do that now. They're basically admitting they lack the ability to be consistent from one scout to another and year over year.

Generally speaking, if you get a 4/5* player you get someone with talent. However that does not mean you got a better talent than several 3* that were rated below them... not a majority by any stretch but several.

Posted by GerryOP on June 20, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Right GoVol @ 11:51 am, chartin' and gotta' go check the tapes, I didn't notice that he did not play, perfect storm, x plays from being undefeated, magic dust, we didn't know that guy was that fast .... But what I love most is his "hurt and indignation" act when confronted!

If we make it through September...

Be well....

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 1:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

fwiw, I don't think 08 is UGA's year. If UT doesn't beat UF, I don't think anyone will... and UT will still have to avoid more than one loss.

I do believe that 09 is UGA's year though. Their OL and D will come to full maturity. They might even find a WR that can produce by then. UT loses alot after 08. UF probably will. I think Harvin will definitely jump to the NFL. They'll lose a couple of OL's. If Tebow finishes school early then he might jump.

Posted by surfmaster on June 20, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Only five weeks until media days! Woo. Hoo.

Posted by LadyVolsEighTimes on June 20, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt, the problem for us is either way UGA and UF are going to be bears this year and next.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I appreciate everyone's posts.

LadyVolsEightTimes...That was a thought provoking post. So here's my take. Georgia was not the best team in the SEC. They lost to SC(when they were healthy) at home and were soundly,soundly beaten by UT on the road. Look for Georgia to possibley struggle or get beaten early by SC again this year as the game will be played in Columbia. South Carolina will have maybe the best defense in the league - if they can stay healthy. That UGA game may not be a on the radar for us, but I can assure that my friends who like the Gamecocks are stoked for that one. Also, Florida was smashed by Michigan in their bowl game. They weren't even close to being the best in the conference. Without sounding offensive, that same Michigan team that was beaten(at home) by Appy State. Finally, we have to stop putting so much weight on one game. Yes, the Florida game is early but it does not end our season. Look what happened last year. Florida collapsed. One injury can change the destiny of any team in an outstanding league.

Vol13...And let's face it, GA is not celebrating the East - because they got clobbered by the co-winner. Haven't we beaten them three of the last four years?

stj18...I think we have to make a move every year in recruiting. That I agree with totally. Last year was a weird year. The 2007 class left little room for the 2008 class to play early - unless you play DT. Early playing time is a big carrot. We also had very few spots to offer. This year will be a little different I think. We are on the radar of many good players who have not chosen their team.

Gator99...You bet the pressure is on Urban Meyer. Though I don't think you are a "fair weather fan" by any means, I am sure there are those on your side of the fence(just like ours) that would moan terribly if Florida won no less than the entire SEC and was in contention for a NC. The Spring game was on ESPN, great recruiting, Tebo, etc. However, if Meyer doesn't win it this year folks are going to say he won w/ Zook's players. Finally, I'll be interested to see if the Auburn and UGA games were a trend...people knowing how to stop the spread option or will Meyer adapt?

Sorry for the long post...

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Lady, I think UGA is set up for a fall. I agree with Will Overstreet's assessment that they are overrated.

Their starting OL is composed of 4 Sophs and a Fr. The remainder of their two deep is 1 JR, 1 So, and 3 Fr.

They are hoping against hope that some Fr can step in at WR. Otherwise their returning WR corps is just flat out bad. Only Massaquoi returns with more than 20 catches last year (39). He's their high returnee for rec ydg- 491. Their next highest returning WR (Durham) had 11 catches for 169 yds.

To put that in perspective (catches/ydg): Taylor- 73/1000, Rogers- 56/624, Briscoe- 56/557, Moore- 14/212, Hancock- 16/165, Jones (missed 5 games)- 11/111.

IOW's, UGA does not have a recipe for a great O this year. If you can't throw at all, you aren't going to line up and run it down people's throats no matter how good Moreno is.

I'm guessing 3 to 5 losses for UGA this year followed up with a job saving year for Richt in 09. UGA could very easily be upset by ASU early in the year. Watch that game. Erickson is getting it together.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ, one interesting thing about the 08 class is that if they had dropped Poole they might have picked up the 5* prep player that signed with Ole Miss. UT never waivered on Poole. Since he got to campus he's done nothing but impress. No one I've seen is talking RS for him. Everyone seems to be expecting him to get carries this year as the 3rd or 4th RB. His play moved Vereen to the secondary.

Guys out of the 08 class that will probably play: Poole, Johnson, Walls/Bohannon (probably not both), and Williams. Hughes could get some PT if he's strong enough and Nelson/Thomas don't get it together.

Abrams-Ward has almost become the forgotten man but if he follows the work out plan and improves his speed a little then he could be a very interesting guy at WR- 6'5", 215, 4.5-4.6 40. If he goes to TE/DE/LB then he'll have to RS to gain weight and strength.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Vol13...And let's face it, GA is not celebrating the East - because they got clobbered by the co-winner. Haven't we beaten them three of the last four years?"

And we got beat by a 4 loss Florida team (your words) by 39 points and a 7-6 Unranked at the time we played them Bama team that suspended 5 players on the morning we played them by four TD's. Which is worse????? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The more I think about it, South Carolina is the dark horse in the conference this year. They play LSU, UGA, and UT in Columbia. Florida is on the road late in the year. Remember SC played Florida close on the road two years ago. And you know the Ol' Ball Coach isn't afraid of the Swamp. The Gators(and all other ball carriers) better fear Jasper Brinkley at LB. They return the enire secondary that didn't allow Georgia to bring the "Hawaii Offense". Their defensive line returns 10 of 12 in a three deep rotation. If Garcia is as good as billed, they may have the second best QB in the conference IMHO.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/25...

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Which is worse????? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Depends on whether you spin everything to conform to your predetermined opinion or do your best to let the data inform your opinions... You spin everything negative because you seem to have determined to only accept info that suggests UT's football future is hopeless.

That's really, really a sad position to take unless you really are a dual identity for iam4ua or some other opponent fan.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

stj18 Great point on Poole. Two guys that I am very excited about are DE Ben Martin(red shirted) and WR Abrams-Ward(as you mention). At 6'5", Abrams-Ward will be a force if a jump ball is thrown. I just hope they can get him on the field in '08. We need his frame on offense. Since he has basketball connections, he may be reluctant to put on too much weight - I really don't know. Ben Martin would have been a difference maker last year if not for that weird knee? injury. From everything I read, he may be one of the best to come through here at that position.

vols13 It's not how you start the race, but how you finish. The Vols persevered from two disappointing SEC losses(by anyone's standards). I don't know of many coaches who could have motivated their teams back from those losses. They beat UGA, stopped an Arkansas team that throttled us the year before, and went to face Kentucky's best team in years (a place where the eventual National Champion could not win). I can see that we see this two different ways. I just happen to see a team that wouldn't quit. Additionally, I think with the 85 scholarship limit and a brutally tough conference(the best in the nation) going undefeated without some tough losses is next to impossible. And you know, nobody seems to remember our QB had a broken finger for almost the entire year.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ, Garcia has issues. Their D will be good but their O will likely struggle. They aren't out of it by any stretch... but they aren't a real contender until they prove they are.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't think Martin RS'd.

I think people are going to be impressed with Wes Brown after this year. He is said to be the quickest of UT's DE's off the corner. Chavis or someone close to the program referred to him as the best run stopping DE UT has had in years. On passing downs, he's physical enough to slide inside putting Walker/Martin/Ayers on the outside. That would be very difficult to stop. Ayers also has the ability to slide inside on passing downs.

Posted by TurboFan on June 20, 2008 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt, did those 4 sophs for Ga's OL play or start last year? If so, then I'm not so sure I buy into your arguement. My gut reaction developed over the last 30 years of watching some college football is that OL's don't improve much from year to year after they get their feet wet in the system. See UT 2001, I think we had 2 sophs and 2 fresh and one sr up front and that was their best year. Don't have any other data to back it up, just gut observation.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 3:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18(sorry for the stj typos earlier) I just think SC will be a "dark horse". If they beat UGA early, they could make things interesting. Folks that follow Carolina football are quietly excited. IF Garcia can play and play well, they will be tough. Just something to think about. I was getting tired of talking about UF all day, all the time - not your fault either. Also, you're right about Martin. He played last year. I am assuming no RS.

vols13 I will say that I hate losing to Bama more than any team in the country. Probably for the same reasons you hate it. I actually thought the Bama loss was the worst of the season. But hey, they get to come to Knoxville this year. And hopefully the play clock won't be off when we run some hurry-up this year.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Best I can tell, UGA lost 2 or 3 starters from their listed depth chart last August. They have both true and RS Freshmen listed in their two deep on Rivals.

I think UGA's young guys will improve over time and be outstanding as a unit. I just don't think they'll do it after losing their Sr leadership with that much youth this year. I think 09 is their year.

RJ, I got burned by USC last year. I really expected them to compete for the East. I also fully expected them to beat UF in Columbia. After all is said and done... they're still who they are until they prove they're not. UT gets knocks for not getting over the hump and winning a championship... USC hasn't sniffed a championship in years. I believe USC, UK, and Ole Miss are the only SEC teams that haven't made the CG.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My wife's family is from SC... they are quietly sharpening their pitchforks....

Posted by LadyVolsEighTimes on June 20, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Add Vandy to that list

Posted by LadyVolsEighTimes on June 20, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The beauty of the SEC is that on any given Saturday any team can win. The Biottch of the SEC is that on any given Saturday any team can lose.

In the East after your first Conference loss, you no longer control your destiny, you have to depend on other teams to step-up or screw-up.

Posted by 99gator on June 20, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rj vol

yes, of course florida's fans are expecting an sec title. georgia's fans haven't been this excited in years.

but, there is a difference of disappointment level.

most gators feel that last year was as bad as it will get. well, that was better than every season under zook. so, if the worst is 9-4 and the best is 13-1, and most years are in between......people will be happy. any loss brings disappointment. and when the team loses, meyer got heat and will get heat. but, no one wants meyer going any where.

i also still don't get the idea that he won with zook's players, but won't win with his own (when they are more talented than zook's crop). they just have to grow up.

i think the 2008 team will be tough to beat.....but, 2009 is the year.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 4:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LadyVolsEightTimes...I'm assuming you meant after your first loss in the East. If an East team loses its only conference game to a team in the West, it still controls its own destiny - as far as going to the title game. But overall, you are right. Thus everygame is important - not just one team/game. However, it's awful tough to go through the SEC East schedule undefeated.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

99gator, Like UT, I think UF needs to win it this year. UGA will be in full bloom in 2009.

Posted by cjraney on June 20, 2008 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt-
Was looking back at the Wes Brown recruiting class the other day and noticed he was actually very highly rated...at DT. He just hasn;t gained much weight since getting to campus. Another DT recruit off the chart.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

gator99 If Meyer does win with his own players the point will obviously be moot, but if he doesn't...watch out! 2009 could be the year, but there are a lot of "what ifs". What if Tebo goes pro after next year(which I think unlikely by the way)? What about injuries? What about coaching changes? What about upsets? What if it rains during your first six games and the spread doesn't work? There are just too many variables. I mean you had the Heisman trophy winner this year and finished third in the conference. My point - nothing is for certain or even likely for '09.

Posted by cjraney on June 20, 2008 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RE: Abrams-Ward-
Obviously he would be a big target at WR/TE but we are just fully stocked right there [especially if B. Warren works out]. I mean we could easily have 8-9 non-RBs per game catch passes this yr not counting A-W OR Warren. Just has to be another way for him to help the team as a whole...I hope.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This sounds like I am trying to get a dig in, but I am just fixing an error. Florida finished third in the East.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 4:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

cjcarney When will we know about Warren?

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 4:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

cjraney, I don't consider Brown a disappointment at DE though.

I don't think the rotation at WR will be that big. I think it will be very competitive and someone will just be the odd man out. In no particular order it sounds like Rogers, Briscoe, Taylor, Jones, Moore, and Hancock are the top guys right now. Paige has a world of potential but apparently hasn't been consistent enough.

If Abrams-Ward is a true 4.5 guy at 6'5" with good hands... there's no one on that list other than maybe Jones I'd rather see out there catching balls. He's a mismatch against any DB.

Posted by 99gator on June 20, 2008 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rjvol

i am not going to go into great detail....

but, florida has only 8 scholarship seniors this season. i keep mentioning how young the gator roster is and i think that puts it into a little bit more perspective.

there are some certainties in 2009. the main one is the big uglies on the defensive side of the ball will be all grown up by then.

in 2009, i will take on all comers in rain, sleet, snow, or on the dark side of the moon.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

99gator, I'll be surprised if Spikes, Tebow, or Harvin are playing for UF in 09. I may miss my guess but I think UF either beats UT and plays for the NC undefeated, loses to UT and still plays for the NC, or else loses to UT and plays a BCS bowl.

Afterwards, I think at least those guys jump and maybe Cunningham if he has a good season.

Posted by 99gator on June 20, 2008 at 5:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18

spikes and harvin are gone. there's no question about that.

i think tebow comes back.

dk about cunningham, but not worried about cunningham because of how many other d-lineman there are.

Posted by 99gator on June 20, 2008 at 5:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt18

i've read where you don't think spikes is all that good anyway.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 5:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

99gator It's too early to be saying, "Wait 'til the next, next year." In all seriousness, in another year another young team(like UF is now) could knock you off. Plus, you have to play South Carolina on the road. Just too many variables. Now, I would like to see the Gators play in some snow...or sleet! That would be like us playing in the Swamp in July. I might have trouble getting transportation to the dark side of the moon though- with gas being so high now! Hope it's in a dome. Have a good weekend!

Posted by cjraney on June 20, 2008 at 5:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ-don't know when on Warren.

SJT-I'm also counting a couple TE's in there too. Basically all non-RBs. Considering what we've heard of Clawson's penchant for throwing to backs out of the backfield and always maintaining the rushing attack, that doesn't leave many touches to spread around the WRs/TEs.

Posted by cjraney on June 20, 2008 at 5:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sjt-Forgot to mention I don't consider Brown a disappointment either, just needs to make the most of his apparent PT this year.

Not saying these are all in the rotation but in contention for PT & touches:
WR: Taylor,Rogers,Hancock,Briscoe,Moore,Jones, Paige,Adams-Ward(?)
TE: Cottam,Stocker,Warren(?)
Did I forget anybody? All I'm saying is there's only one ball and more need on defense for a big fast guy like A-W.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LMAO! IF UT beats Florida......Hilarious! We ain't gonna beat Florida. Fulmer will never beat Urban Meyer head to head. His best chance was in 2005-06. It's only going to get uglier from here on out as their talent improves, while ours declines. We can't beat Florida with a roster full of All-Americans. Yet, we're gonna beat them with a 1/4 roster of All-Americans. Too funny.

Saddest of all is that many of you will be back on here by the Monday morning following the woodshed thrashing convinced that we'll win in Gainesville in 2009.

Posted by IBleedOrange444 on June 20, 2008 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol13 is a Gayter fan. It's pretty transparent. Why the number 13 dude? What is the significance?

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 6:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't remember saying that 99gator. Maybe I did in the context of your D last year?

If I said that he won't be good this year or especially next if he stays... well, I never said that I didn't make mistakes.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 6:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm guessing he's a Bama fan IBleed. Maybe iam4ua's alter-ego. They post alot alike.

If UT beats UF and especially if they beat Bama... I expect both to disappear pretty quickly.

Posted by sjt18 on June 20, 2008 at 6:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Only a moron or someone who didn't plan on being around to face the consequences of such a definitive prediction would make a post like Vol13's last one.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 7:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wrong. I'm die hard Vol through and through. Too many year's of seeing acquisitions, mergers, and corporate takeovers to turn a blind eye to the goings on in Knoxville. Bill Battle - Here We Come!!!

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 7:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ash:

Sometimes other people are just better than you are at a given time. Whatever happened to being a good sportsman and giving credit where it is due?

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 8:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol13 Bill Battle does not equal Phil Fulmer. I grew up in the Battle era and early Majors era. We didn't beat Alabama until I was 11(maybe it was 10). Bluebonnet Bowl was the best we could muster and I was happy just be there. Whether fans like it or not, Fulmer will go down as the best or second best coach in UT history - will be tough to top Neyland's undefeated/unscored upon season. He has given this University much to cheer about. I used to hate watching UT lose every close game possible - Army game is posterchild of that problem. I imagine that if you check CPF's overtime record that it is pretty impressive. He just doesn't lose many close games. Additionally, he raised the standard for what a good recruiting class at UT could be. We have been a bit spoiled. Florida's classes are so good because the majority of their recruits are in-state. Phil has to criss-cross the country to meet our recruiting needs, and convince parents/kids to leave home and go to a city they may have never been. We are lucky to have a coach that puts us in contention virtually every year. Unfortunately, unless we win it every year he's taking heat.

Posted by pdhuff on June 20, 2008 at 8:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ Vol 8:09 - good sensible post.

I see the "unless we win it every year" in a slightly different context.

1999

2000

2001

2002

2003

2004

2005

2006

2007

Hard to overlook that......

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

pdhuff - You and I have already haggled over this before. I posted a response to a similar set of stats before. So, I'll try writing something new to build new conversation instead of rehashing. I do realize that being in contention and winning the SEC East are not your measures of success. The SEC East is also much better than when it was just us and UF a decade ago. UGA has come light years - which has hurt our recruitng in Georgia(Jamal Lewis, etc.). South Carolina is on the verge - which has hurt our recruiting there. Kentucky last season - unreal. LSU - need I say more. They aren't in the East, but their success influenced our recruiting negatively. We are in the best division of the best league in the country. Really, I think our problem is needing to win the SEC championship game. Thus, here is the crux of the problem IMO. The East is so difficult that physically UT is very banged up when we get to the championship game. We don't live in a state where we can recruit 3 deep at every position. Thus, a team like LSU or Auburn gives us fits at the end of the year due to depth and recruiting in talent rich states. Just look at last year. Our QB has a broken finger. Our best receiver has turf toe(very painful I hear). I don't know how Ryan Karl even dressed. Vinson's shoulder. Mayo was hurt? Not sure about Arian Foster - he might have been OK. LSU had injuries to their All-American DT and QB's. But their depth and a couple of bad throws beat us. However, I will still stand by the fact that our defense played two of the most memorable hitting games in years against LSU and Wisconsin. But I am very proud of the resiliency of last year's team and their downright toughness in the face of injuries. Programs are built around those kinds of years - not dismantled. I'll have to check this. But UT may be the only regular SEC contender that does not make its home in a talent rich recruiting state. The fact that we still contend is saying something. End of ramble...

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 20, 2008 at 8:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I hate to even say what I'm about to say because it's close to trash talk. But I think this Tennessee team, led by a brutally hitting defense, is just chomping at the bit to get on the field next year. UCLA could be a stumbling block due to having a new QB on the road, but that game won't make or break us. I know this, the fourth quarter against Florida will be heavy in the mind of folks like Eric Berry, Arian Foster, Rico McCoy, Jon Crompton, Demonte Bolden, and the rest of the squad. They were embarassed by Arkansas two years ago and look what happened the following year. Florida may win. Florida may lose. But they will know that they have been in a football game. I have said previously that this is just one game. But I will say to LadyVolsEightTimes, this game will mean something a little extra for Coach Fulmer. So I agree w/ your earlier post in saying this game will be important. Eventually it just needs to be one game among other games, this year I think our team is quietly waiting for the Gators. Their fans have been talking big for the entire off-season about their win and how much more talented they are. If you are going to brew an upset(which it would be since they bring the current Heisman trophy winner to Knoxville and a lot of hype) the pieces are in place.

Posted by pdhuff on June 20, 2008 at 9:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ Vol - you have to control your own options (Tenn), not what some one else is doing. Ga stepped up recruiting, Bama and others as well. The loss of R Garner is still felt in my humble opinion. Pointing out geographical boundries is excuses to me. Other schools recuit across big regions.

Phil is a good man, but what is alarming is he is below .500 vs 7 of the current coaches. Others have changed staffs, head coaches, AD's to get results. I just feel we have stagnated to a point where it will be hard to get it back.

All we can do is hope you are right about this defense taking the bit in their teeth. The effort was there last year, we simply didn't have the d-line talent to compete with many teams.

I'm not sure what has changed. Maybe we'll get off to a good start vs the Bruins. We had a 11th ranked D and changed very little, coachwise or talent. We can all hope.

Posted by Vol13 on June 20, 2008 at 9:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ:

Fulmer's a UT legend, no matter how anyone feels about him. But where you and I differ is that I feel his time has come and gone. You feel that he can get it back. We'll see. The SEC is no longer laden with marginal coaches at the SEC power schools. Fulmer is 11-23 vs. the current crop of marquee coaches in this league. Every one else is around 50% vs. their peers. And outside of Georgia losing a few games to SEC doormats in recent history, all the marquee teams routinely beat up on the Miss. schools and Vandy/Kentucky. In other words, we should be winning those games.

Go back and review history. Tennessee has recruited abroad for years. This is not some recent phenomenon. The 1951 team had no starters on offense from Tennessee and two on defense. We've always gotten players from wherever we needed to get them. And the state of Tennessee (though low in numbers) produces more DI prospects yearly.

Posted by vol_in_lsu_land on June 20, 2008 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol13

Though I thoroughly disagree with you on the direction of the program, I must say that I appreciate your approach to debate. While I think there is a certain amount of spin in either direction (you know what they say about stats), at least your arguments are sometimes new or different. Have you ever used "Foolmore", "Phat Phil" or "Pound the Fritter" in a post? I'm going to have to watch a little closer. At least your drum beat isn't always the same note.

Posted by Vol13 on June 21, 2008 at 1:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks vol in lsu land. No, I have never made light of Fulmer's appearance.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 21, 2008 at 1:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

vol_in_lsu_land...I agree w/ your remarks. I don't mind debate as long as it's grounded in facts or even strongly held opinions. I think consensus is terrible in many cases. As Crichton says, "Consensus has been the first refuge for scoundrels."

pd...I do totally agree about the loss of R. Garner. I think he went to UGA did he not? Connections to certain regions and high school coaches helps greatly as you know. I believe we lost a lot of ground in GA due to that. As for excuses, I hear where your coming from. But still, the landscape has changed in the SEC. If UT beats UGA one more year in a row that makes it 4 out of five. Would I fire Richt for that? No way. He's a great coach!

vols13...As vol_in_lsu_land stated, I can live w/ how that post was presented (not that I police this site nor even have authority to make that remark). I never mind a good debate or talking w/ people I don't agree with on issues. I am going to check the 11-23...Ok, I've checked. I have no idea where you are getting these 34 games against CURRENT marquee coaches. There have been so many coaching changes in the conference during the past few years. If they are new, how did Fulmer play them a total of 34 times? The math is going not going to be pretty if I have to disaggregate that one. So, I'll let you explain...but here are my numbers in plain site...I chose to include Zook since he rebounded at Illinois. Shula is "iffy" I agree.

Last 6 years(somewhat arbitrary on my part, but decided to pick the frame Fulmer "struggled" the most)...

Total record last six years: 63-27
vs. Bama 4-3 (Shula/Saban)
vs. UF 3-4 (Zook/Meyer)
vs. UGA 3-4 (Richt)
vs. LSU 2-3 (Miles/Saban)
vs. USC 5-1 (Spurrier/Holtz)
vs. Notre Dame 1-2 (Willingham/Weise)
vs. Miami 1-1 (Coker)
vs. Auburn 0-3(all Tuberville?)
vs. rivals listed above: 19-21 (roughly 48%)
10 win seasons: 4
record vs. top 25: roughly 15-18 (It's 12:30 AM ok)
perc. vs. top 25: roughly 45 percent
wins vs. top 10: 6
Ranked in top 10 for part of season: 6 out of 7
Bowl games: 6
SEC East titles or share: 4
SEC Championship games: 3 (0-3)

In fairness to the coach:
Overall winning percentage: .766 (Neyland's better)
5-1 in overtime games( 2LSU, 1Bama, 1Ark, 1UF, 1SC)

Vols13: Some of those stats aren't pretty. Some are pretty awesome. However, if I were to post Fulmer's entire career(not just "tough" spots) that would be most fair. Those stats are truly astounding. You can use my posting history to find those. For the above, I tried to pick what I would consider the best/marquee coaches that we played in that era. Those are 40 games over the past six years. If you don't like the guys current coaching, that's your right. However, statistics can be made to say what we want. But like it or not, we won the East last year and were a quarter away from playing in the Sugar. Sorry for the length, but I try not to throw numbers around w/out proof.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 21, 2008 at 1:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

vols13 I hit my word limit! Wanted to mention that I used UT's athletic site and stooped to using Wikipedia.

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 21, 2008 at 1:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Edit: Change "Total record 6 years" to "Total record 7 years"

Edit: We are 6-1 vs. USC past 7 years. That changes the record vs. rivals to 20-21 and the corresponding percentage to about 49%.

Sorry, it's late...

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 21, 2008 at 1:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Edit: 5-1 overtime games(LSU, UK, Bama, Ark, UF, USC) In other words, if it is a close game Fulmer is extremely tough.

Posted by pdhuff on June 21, 2008 at 6:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ Vol, care to offer a guess on this season?

I stepped up with a 7-5 guess. Some think more, but I don't see it. Believe offense will have similiar stats (life-saving last season) while "D" could be 10% better, maybe.

As far as "Phil is extremely tough" in close games, I doubt if he had much to do with KY and Vandy missing FGs or the 15 yard "fumble forward vs SC saving our bacon. That may have been divine guidance.

Conjecture goes out the window when rubber meets the road or "toe meets leather". Certainly hope we get to see lots of Phil's finger aerials.

Sorry for the Tolstoy effort.

Posted by Vol13 on June 21, 2008 at 8:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

RJ Vol:

The problem with OT games is - outside of 1998 Florida - we should not have been in OT with any of those teams. Our talent level at the time we played them was far and wide over those guys. I view that as playing down to the level of your competition moreso than great coaching in tight games.

You can go here to view where I got my 11-23 record. Just scroll down and you'll see the guy's post on the subject.

http://forums.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&a...

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 21, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol 13 I checked your source. Those numbers have an extremely nasty statistical "bend" in them. This is why:

1. How many games should a coach play another coach before the data set becomes valid? I would think that coaches would have to play many, many times before you get a trend. I could flip a quarter and if I only look at four flips - the data could show that heads won three of four times. Thus it appears heads is 3-1 and must be the better side of the coin to flip until you expand the data set to include more trials. Another flaw is that Fulmer has played Meyer in the Swamp twice. Meyer has only been here once. We went like 30 years without winning there until Fulmer did it - twice. For example (according to your "data set"), I could establish a trend(using your data) that Coach Fulmer becomes dominant against coaches once they have been in the league five years. I don't think Richt or Spurrier would say they have recent, consistent success against Coach Fulmer.

2. Additionally, for the data set to be valid all of the coaches would have to have coached against the other coaches in the rubric thirty four times to get a proper trend - and to equal Fulmer. Otherwise, it's shifting the baseline to make numbers lie. Miles and Meyer look great since they have only played twelve and fourteen games against the rubric. It's like saying, I'm 3-0 so I have a 1.000 winning percentage.

3. TRENDS of coaches are monitored by computer in every game situation known to man. A new, creative coach is at a total advantage because their trends are not known. Look what happened to Meyer this year. His team finished in the middle of the pack once folks knew his trends. If it happens again this year, he is cooked. Let's see what his record is against those coaches after he goes 34 games and every game situation of his is charted. Recent trend: Fulmer went 2-3 versus that list last year. Does that make him 0.400 now?

3. There is no time frame in the data set...Some our your data in yor data set comes from different decades. Some is recent.

4. Some coaches were at two different programs.

5. Who is not in the data set and why? Obviously, you are using championships to be placed on the list. Should Miles really by on it, since these are not his players and even Urban Meyer. Should we really be including a coach who went 6-6 last year on a marquee coaching list? Or should we included coaches who stared with nothing, built a team, and didn't use the other "coached up" players. In that case, where is Sylvester Croom? Are you saying he is not an up and coming coach in the SEC? Why? Alabama might think differently. Auburn might think differently. Where is Houston Nutt? Arkansas went to the SEC title game two years ago and had a Heisman contender last year.

6. Lastly, what is the motive in using a flawed data set (w/ a shifting baseline) that makes statistics "bend" data?

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 21, 2008 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Vol 13 I checked your source. Those numbers have an extremely nasty statistical "bend" in them. This is why:

1. How many games should a coach play another coach before the data set becomes valid? I would think that coaches would have to play many, many times before you get a trend. I could flip a quarter and if I only look at four flips - the data could show that heads won three of four times. Thus it appears heads is 3-1 and must be the better side of the coin to flip until you expand the data set to include more trials. Another flaw is that Fulmer has played Meyer in the Swamp twice. Meyer has only been here once. We went like 30 years without winning there until Fulmer did it - twice. For example (according to your "data set"), I could establish a trend(using your data) that Coach Fulmer becomes dominant against coaches once they have been in the league five years. I don't think Richt or Spurrier would say they have recent, consistent success against Coach Fulmer.

2. Additionally, for the data set to be valid all of the coaches would have to have coached against the other coaches in the rubric thirty four times to get a proper trend - and to equal Fulmer. Otherwise, it's shifting the baseline to make numbers lie. Miles and Meyer look great since they have only played twelve and fourteen games against the rubric. It's like saying, I'm 3-0 so I have a 1.000 winning percentage.

3. TRENDS of coaches are monitored by computer in every game situation known to man. A new, creative coach is at a total advantage because their trends are not known. Look what happened to Meyer this year. His team finished in the middle of the pack once folks knew his trends. If it happens again this year, he is cooked. Let's see what his record is against those coaches after he goes 34 games and every game situation of his is charted. Recent trend: Fulmer went 2-3 versus that list last year. Does that make him 0.400 now?

3. There is no time frame in the data set...Some our your data in yor data set comes from different decades. Some is recent.

4. Some coaches were at two different programs.

5. Who is not in the data set and why? Obviously, you are using championships to be placed on the list. Should Miles really by on it, since these are not his players and even Urban Meyer. Should we really be including a coach who went 6-6 last year on a marquee coaching list? Or should we included coaches who started with nothing, built a team, and didn't use the other "coached up" players. In that case, where is Sylvester Croom? Are you saying he is not an up and coming coach in the SEC? Why? Alabama might think differently. Auburn might think differently. Where is Houston Nutt? Arkansas went to the SEC title game two years ago and had a Heisman contender last year.

6. Lastly, what is the motive in using a flawed data set (w/ a shifting baseline) that makes statistics "bend" data?

Posted by RJ_Vol on June 21, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry for the double post. Doldrums...

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