WACO, Texas - Since it didn't make nearly enough shots, Tennessee didn't have a shot against Baylor on Tuesday night.
The Lady Vols missed their first nine field-goal attempts and never rose above 30 percent accuracy, losing to the Lady Bears 65-54 before a Baylor-record crowd of 10,569 at the Ferrell Center.
"When you don't make shots, it's not pretty,'' UT coach Pat Summitt said. "We weren't as efficient as we had to be to play this team head-on."
Freshman guard Odyssey Sims scored a game-high 24 points for No. 2 Baylor (10-1). Center Brittney Griner had 21 points and blocked nine shots.
Freshman Meighan Simmons had 22 points for No. 6 Tennessee (9-2), extending her streak of double-figure scoring games to start her Tennessee career to 11. But the 5-foot-9 guard couldn't avoid her team's shooting struggles, needing 21 attempts for her points.
Several of her teammates fared far worse. Forward Shekinna Stricklen shot 1-for-9 and guard Kamiko Williams was 2-for-10. Angie Bjorklund was the only other Lady Vol scoring in double figures. She needed 12 shots for 10 points.
No Lady Vol approached break-even accuracy. Overall, Tennessee shot an artic-cold 25 percent from the floor (18-for-72), squandering 23 offensive rebounds and a 53-43 advantage on the boards.
The last time Tennessee shot below 30 percent for a game was Feb. 11, 2008, against Rutgers (29.7 percent).
"I don't know of any team I've been affiliated with that's held a Tennessee team to 25 percent shooting,'' Baylor coach Kim Mulkey said.
Tennessee struggled to score right from the start. The Lady Vols' first field goal - a Kelley Cain rebound basket - didn't occur until nearly six minutes had passed.
The Lady Vols managed to hang around by building their rebounding advantage and maximizing their baskets. At one point, they had six field goals but half of them were 3-pointers.
UT was lurking within 23-21 after a Williams jumper but Baylor closed the first half with an 11-0 scoring run.
"That was huge,'' Summitt said. "We didn't answer it."
Griner scored eight points during that stretch and set up Kimetra Hayden's transition basket with a block of Alyssia Brewer's shot attempt.
The Lady Vols closed within 34-27 early in the second half. They were lurking within 50-41 when Lady Vol Taber Spani missed an open 3-point attempt from the corner with 7:36 left. Tennessee's final shot at a rally turned out to be just a missed opportunity.
While Griner didn't dominate like she did in last March's 77-62 NCAA tournament victory over UT, her presence was reflected by Tennessee's measly 10 points from close range.
"We take pride in our defense,'' Griner said. "It seems like each time we're getting better on the defensive end."
Griner had help from teammate Brooklyn Pope. The 6-foot-1 forward had four blocks, including one of the game's most resounding rejections when she swatted Simmons' shot into the stands.
"We practice it every day,'' Pope said. "So if we don't do it, it won't be exciting when we get back to practice."
Sims, who still isn't completely recovered from a knee injury, made a scoring difference in the second half with 14 of her points. Her steal and driving layup with 6:09 provided a 56-44 lead.
"You haven't seen the real Odyssey yet,'' Mulkey said. "Wait until she's completely healthy."
Sims' play impressed Simmons.
"Today I saw a side of Odyssey I've never seen,'' she said. "What that means is I've got to get better. I have to get my teammates the ball like she did."
And she and her teammates have to make a lot more shots.
"I thought we kind of settled to play one-on-one,'' Bjorklund said. "We need to play more as a team. Once we moved the ball and played inside-outside, that's when we got more open shots instead of contested shots."
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Comments » 99
SummittsCourt writes:
Opportunity for growth for the Lady Vols. This is why Pat schedules these games to get her team ready for the playoffs. All that matters is who wins the last game. Move on and lets get the lady cardinal!
BleedsOrangeinMO writes:
Watched the women and listened to the men; what a night to be a VOLFAN. The women could not cut the led below nine, When they got it to nine or ten they threw bad passes and Baylor scored on every one of them. I still believe the girls are afraid of Brittany and where are our post players? Oh yea, we've got the walking wounded at that position. It's better to loose in Dec. than March/April. I said we would be 1 and 1 on this trip. Now can the girls recover and beat Stanford, Rutgers and LSU??? I've been a Lady VOLFAN since Pat came to Tenn, but this has got to learn how to be the best teams otherwise they will continue to be only second tier. And I hate that!!!!!
rogatl2002#222395 writes:
That was THE most frustrating game i have ever watched the LV play. Can our coaches not figure out how to teach our players what a head fake is??? Griner would be out of the game in 2 minutes if our players would just give her one head fake and go up into her for the shot instead of trying to fade away and shoot over her. That's coaching and game prep. We have so much talent on this team. Lockwood is the weak link on the staff. Pat..PLEASE get an assistant on your staff who knows how to coach offense. You change line-ups every week. The players look out of synch. You are a terrific recruiter, motivator, rebounding, defensive coach but your teams never play to 75 % of their potential on offense against teams of similar caliber. If you had a great offensive mind on your staff the LV could win 8 more NC before you retire.
HanQ7 writes:
I have bee waiting alll for this! I am thoroughly upset with both the men's and women's team after tonite's performance. I think the men got the "big head" after they beat Pitt and took Oakland lightly..... ALL BAD! I am eve more disappointed in the Lady Vols.... The DID NOT come to play whatsoever! Stricklen flat out got scared and whinced all night long. Angie, should be benched and what the hell was Glory thinking trying to score over Griner! I said it before and I'll say it again, Simmons is a trooper; that girl flat out has heart and she played her butt off (a little wild at times) but thats her game. Had Vicki done a jump shot after getting to he basket and waited for Griner, she probably would have gotten fouled. I just don't know what it is with this team. Someone said a few weeks ago that they get scared when they play ranked teams. Kelly Cain actually played better than she has in a long time. If she can post up like that and demand the ball more, then this will be a different team. Now if they don't beat Stanford on Sunday, then clearly this team shouldnt even bother to pack their bags for the Final Four. I love my UT, but this playing scared is not cutting it! On another note.... I really do think Griner is a man... He-Man's mannerism just don't cute it for me. That's just not attractive or lady like at all. She/He has NO breast, chest is as flat as a pancake; hell even pancakes have more fluffiness than her chest! LOL, im just venting; don't pay me any attention! Oh well on to the next, I feel sorry for Stanford; maybe they will actually play forreal on Sunday!
tnvols10 writes:
wow you obviously know nothing about basketball. they had a bad game and pat summitt is a hell of a lot better coach than geno will ever be. just wait till ut meets uconn in the final four...uconn will get out coached and out played i can promise you that
HanQ7 writes:
Low key, I think you love the Big Orange! We love it when people like you have negative things to say about us! Keep it up playa!!!! And, by the way.... Dolson is sorry is hell! I bet you she doesn't wanna see Kelly one on one! Kill YOSELF in the hole you crawled out of.... Legooo Big Orange! hahahaha
coffy73 writes:
I didn't even watch the game, just kept up on twitter, cause I knew this group of players were gonna come out scared. I never thought I would say that about a Tenn. lady vol team. I love Simmons and she seems to be the only one committed to showing up; sad when it's your freshman that has this attitude and not the vets! Now I really think it was uncalled for to insult Griner, she's not a man and I think that's a little cruel to suggest it. Anyway, on to the Stanford game and I sincerely hope these lady vols come out super fired up.
BBhoops writes:
Pat has been going down hill every since she recruited the 7 freshmen 2 years ago. They are the most intimated bunch I've ever seen. Simmons plays hard and isn't scared of nothing. I can't wait until these girls graduate and the other recruit players come. Talking about making to the Final Four, it will never happen with this crew.
bobbizee#247300 writes:
we panicked again like the NCAA last year it was a team effort, I am really disappointed but this doesn't end our season we will work harder (coaches & players) I have been a fan since 1981 show me a post player on this team that is 100% healthy keep the faith many more games to come
xvolx writes:
This one has to be on Pat. Same game plan she used in tourn.. Zone was wrong defense and offense's right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Lady Vols weren't prepared too well.
huntined#565710 writes:
Hey Mike maybe you like looking at Geno's pants but that Mulkey is one good looking lady and fills those pants out very well but like I said maybe you like Geno's better!!
PINK_CHAMPAGNE writes:
Tennessee just could not buy a bucket tonight! Shooting was horrible,due to rushed shots, and shot selection. I will never understand why they try to shoot over Griner. Common sense will tell you that is a block. You can't do it! But they kept running right in there, and she kept sending it back. Dean Lockwood works with the posts, and he needs to teach these girls to pump fake, to shoot a short jumper, and develop some post moves. Griner tries to block every shot, so you got to do something other than try to shoot over her.
Stricklen, I don't understand! She picks and choose when she wants to play. She was so intimidated tonight, and made mistake after mistake. I think she had like 6 turnovers. She did not even look for her shot the first half. The second half she took a few bad shots, except for one. That high post jumper she made, she had that shot all night long, and overlooked it. I would have benched her and used Spani. Spani was at least looking for her shot, and made a few. I don't care who the player is, if you are not going to play hard, bench them! I watched Strick just to see how she would act in this game, because she tends to get intimidated in the big games, and she did.
The defense wasn't that good either! We missed too many shooters. Sims made them pay tonight, when they tried to cheat on defense. Too many missed assignments. Add to the fact that they got down by 13 to end the half. A long night was in store!
ps11824 writes:
Pat, you must never ever wear that jacket again. Auction the thing off for charity. I will be happy to take the proceeds and apply it toward my Relay For Life Team.
Stanford will eat our lunch if we play like we played tonight, BUT, if you will lose the jacket, that will never happen again. Happy to get that out of the way before Christmas holidays. Pat, please do not compete with coach Mulkey. It aint you, babe.
Griner should have been called for that 'choke gesture.' Hopefully the refs did not see that. If they did, and let it go, shame on them. I don't usually promote violence but I would have to inflict some pain if I were pushed around like we were pushed around. When did we get so soft?
Dana Johnson, where are you?
UTVOLSRROCKN writes:
Agree and thank you!
wigmeister writes:
I hope Simmons can teach the others what playing hard is all about! Between the men and women, a dark night for the orange.
kazoo writes:
I agree about Lockwood--don't think he's a great coach. Summitt has been clueless about offense for MANY years--and I think it's almost intentional. She's still stuck in the 70s and thinks that we can beat anybody if we're just tough enough and play defense. No, you gotta put the ball in the basket consistently. There is no excuse for a team with talent to barely get to 50 points--Griner or no Griner. And speaking of defense, how does UT let a freshman guard score 24? Not good.
PINK_CHAMPAGNE writes:
I did not agree with that zone defense either. Man to man and switch on screens, I think would have been better. Baylor shot that zone to pieces! You have to adjust the defense at that point, which they did in the second half, and actually looked a little better. Just could not buy a bucket!
UTVOLSRROCKN writes:
Truth be known, Pat has not been happy with Lockwood for quite a while now. If they don't pull it together by March, Lockwood will not be there next year....just saying
BBhoops writes:
No need for criticism and to be frustrated. Everybody knew the lady vols were going to lose before the game got started and that's what happen they got their butts kicked. Sunday will be a showdown and no intimidation from the players. On their home court and probably will get their butts kicked again.
freestyle writes:
Nothing would please me more than to see Candace Parker and Nikki Caldwell coaching the lady vols.
kazoo writes:
Another truly pathetic performance. A veteran team that shoots 25 percent for the game? Please--embarrassing. Stricklen, Bjorklund, Cain, Johnson, even Williams--what a mentally soft group. We used to call this taking the apple.
HanQ7 writes:
They couldnt play the refs and Baylor too....It was some horrible calls on top of them not making shorts with the exception of my pick for National Frosh of the Year Simmons!
huntined#565710 writes:
We played a better team tonight and right now there are about 8-10 teams that are better then the VOLS right now,,I know that is hard for some of you to take but when these lady's play another good team the don't have that WE ARE BETTER FEELING and they don't play their best games..and it is not only one player it looks like when one is having a bad game they all have a bad game..Baylor had a good game and we didn't.
BBhoops writes:
Don't worry, come March the lady vols will be sent home again. I am beginning to wonder if Simmons regret coming to Tenn. and the newcomers.
PINK_CHAMPAGNE writes:
Odyssey Sims showed the lady vols how to be a point guard tonight. She took what they gave her. She executed Baylor's game plan. Even though Simmons scored 20 plus points, she was schooled on how to run that position by Odyssey. I think Simmons shot too much tonight, but then again, no one else was really looking for a shot, other than Kamiko when she was in, and Spani. This just adds to my point,you have to have a post game, in order to have a complete game plan, and have your offense run efficiently. You can't have one without the other. You can win games that way, but not the big games, against a team just as good. When shots aren't falling, you got to have something else to fall back on, and right now, Tennessee does not have it, consistently due to injuries. But I will give Kelly credit. She was not intimidated, and she defended Griner pretty well, in my eyes. Griner was slowed in the second half, and did not have her way, like she did in the first half. I thought kelly did a good job, considering.
mad_poly_uct writes:
What I found more telling than shooting 25%, was only 5 assists. First time watching Tenn. this year. Simmons is great addition for you guys. A bit out of control at times, but for a Freshman, she's a force.
UTVOLSRROCKN writes:
It is really hard to win a game when your FG% is 25%. The three point %age was only "a hair" bit better at 26%. We did outrebound them by 3. We shot 18FT's, they shot 32. If you noticed Pat was on the refs during the entire game. It was indeed frustrating to watch.
The thing is...is that Pat is a frustrated as we are. She knows the talent is there, just like we do. However, when the game starts, especially against great teams, the Lady Vols do seem scared and lose all composure...WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SIMMONS! It is as mind boggling to the coaches as it is to us.
What do you do with a team like this, get them into therapy sessions?(again, except Simmons). It does seem to be all mental. It is still early in the year, and hopefully they will get this worked out and ALL play the way they are capable of playing. Don't throw in the towel yet! GBO!
HanQ7 writes:
Yeah, I've been saying that all season long.... Simmons is a gamer and she was the ONLY person willing to shoot forreal, she just needs to think about what she does sometimes and play under control. People are sleeping on Cain and saying she's over weight, but I promise you if she plays the way she did tonite the rest of the season..... OHH you better believe this will be a brand new team come March. If she demands the ball like that all the time, then they will go far! Now, I just think Angie should be benched.... and Strick was just flat out scared!
ladyvolsfan789 writes:
I don't mean to be a sour grape, but watching Baylor play is starting to get aggrivating. The announcers talked about her all game and that's been the case in every game I've seen Baylor play. Refs are always terribly one sided when calling fouls against Griner. There were a number of calls which made Pat absolutely livid and Griner ended up with 3 total fouls while the three players (Johnson, Cain, Brewer) we had guarding her had 9 total. I'll give her credit. She is a great shot blocker, but she definately gets away with more than her fair share especially considering that her and Sims are Baylor's main weapons. Her getting into foul trouble can easily change the outcome of the game.
That being said there are some positives that can be taken away from this game. Up till the end Tennessee was able to keep the game within reach despite only shooting 25% from the field. Not a lot of teams are able to due this when playing a top tier opponent away from home and with such one-sided officiating. Kelly Cain played significant minutes from the first time this year and she played well. It also looked liked her and Johnson had figured out how to frustrate and defend Griner in the second half and if we meet again in the NCAAs on a neutral court I think we'll come out with a win (especially because Brewer, Cain and Baugh will be even closer to 100%). Finally, Stanford has to come play us at our house coming off a loss. They better come prepared to play because I know the Lady Vols will, and I have confidence that our next game will be a win.
kazoo writes:
Summitt's teams do not move well, or pass the ball well--that has been a MAJOR weakness of hers FOREVER. She's basically all defense and rebounding and has never had much clue about /team offense./ UT's assist totals are usually pretty low. There's simply no excuse for a talented, veteran team like this to stink up the joint offensively like this. Basically, unless you are Cain, you don't try to shoot the ball in the paint unless Griner is out of position. You orient your offense around getting good 8-20 foot jumpers, which entails good player movement and passing, and then making shots.
BIGEJ writes:
Well, when anyone one of us commenting schedule the TOP teams in the nation EVERY year, WIN in excess of 1000 games (and counting), WIN 8 nat'l championships and work our student athletes to graduate 100% of the players that remain in the programs,etc., etc..... then a critic we can be. Otherwise fries are just a "tater." GO VOLS
SoddyVol writes:
I felt Kelly did a pretty fair job tonight. We just don't have a post player that isn't hurt or a little rusty. The confidence level was so much higher for Baylor. Maybe the home court made some of that difference. Their BB ability kept it close for much of the game, but mentally most LVols seemed to me to be beat before they got on the floor.
maxvolfan#217855 writes:
I would have left Kamiko in and took Strick out tonight. Im not a coach just a opinion. This game was tough to watch Baylor has a very good team and deserve to be #2. The lady Vols have a lot of growing up to do if they are to get in the Final four. A lot of talented teams out there with Stanford sisters coming in town and Rutgers. We will not be tested in the SEC this year so we have to use these next two games as a measuring stick . I still see this team ranked at #4.Keep working ladies. GBO
flatrock writes:
Better team won tonight. Griner is more athletic than any Lady Vol- and her supporting cast is
solid. Simmons made some nice plays, but if you
kept a plus/minus (like in hockey) on her tonight, she might have ended with a net minus.
She NEVER gives up the ball on a break and takes
too many one-on-four shots; never boxes out
and has shown no interest in passing on-time to
the post. I'll take Kamiko- she's a better passer, ball-handler, rebounder, jump-shooter
and penetrator. She, too, is fearless. Only
individual who can shut her down is, unfortunately, Pat. My money says this team
will only go as far as Pat lets Kamiko take them!
maxvolfan#217855 writes:
Good job tonight Kel. Continue to get healthy and be ready to dominate the rest of the season downlow in the post. Thinking ahead if our freshmen coming end next year as just as good as Simmons this year wow what a class we will have. Simmons never stop shooting that ball. True baller. Great teams win games with scorers. Gosh why did we take Williams out tonight? Yes she was shooting a lot but let her figure it out. Man im frustrated. Baylor went cold in the second half , thats when we should have striked with Williams and Simmons. oh well lets get Stanford
Pullingguard writes:
This Lady Vol team is slow, akward, and not that good against top notch competition... Their next loss comes verses Stanford... Johnson, I am sure has PS confused... Against Baylor they looked very bad.
UTVOLSRROCKN writes:
Good post HanQ7. I agree 100%!
maxvolfan#217855 writes:
Doesnt add up. The vols basically played against 5 players tonight. How is that possible and still lose? IDK . Im going to bed. Night Volnation
UTVOLSRROCKN writes:
I agree with you also maxvolfan. Simmons has brought out a better Williams and I would have liked to see more of her too!
As for kazoo, "it" has never had a good thing to say about CPS or the Lady Vols. If you don't believe me, go back and read kazoo's posts. Everyone needs to ignore kazoo, your life will be better!
Sorry maxvolfan to hijack your post with my reply about kazoo on here too. I just will not respond to kazoo directly, so I had to put it somewhere. GBO!
r2d2 writes:
The LV could have won this game by 6 or 7 points. Stricklen, Bjorklund and Williams scored 17 points total. That is not enough. These three should have scored at least 35 points minimum. Glory Johnson scored 5 points in 11 minutes playing time. I am not sure why she played only 11 minutes. There is something wrong with this team's consistency and toughness.
maxvolfan#217855 writes:
Cant sleep :( Cant back down sunday with the O sisters coming in and Pohlen and Pedersen. You better believe Vanderer is gonna have them ready to play. Let go out and show them that we belong. We should burn them in transistion. They are a real slow team. In my eyes i think we have the fastest team out there just need our post players healthy enought to run that post highway and wow our team would be 4G speeds. lol sry im a techie
coffy73 writes:
Please, get outta here with that weak argument! We, as Vol fans, know the achievements and the accolades, we know Coach Summitt is one of the best. This is the reason why you see so many criticisms about this team and it's good, honest critiques. Why should we shut our eyes and cover our ears and say "lalalala we have 8 championships lalala, our coach has 1000+ wins!" This team is only in the top 10 because of our great coach and her ability to get the most out of players, but this particular group will not get to the final four. When Stricklen, bjorklund, cain leave and new recruits with better mental strength come in to back up Simmons, then we'll have a team to be proud of again. Now, we'll see what true strength they have in the game against Stanford. I'm hoping for a win at home! :)
tovolny writes:
The Lady Vols also lack leadership from the top. The Lady Vols were not prepared to play this game. Maybe Pat Summit should ban herself from her new office and go up and use the Alumni gym office. The team is begging for leadership, begging for direction. Pat Summit and her entire staff have not provided the training, the preparation, the caring that this team is seeking. We have the top facilities found in college basketball, we have a large fan base, we get players waving All Amerian flags...we play BAD basketball. The top level recruits have started side-stepping the Lady Vols for the last two years. They can see the decline in preparation and coaching. A coach needs to do more than just chew the team out at halftime. I believe the game has actually passed Pat up. Very few people ever question Pat Summit due to her famous win record. But I am doing it here and now. I am telling Pat Summit to get her act together. Maybe she should look herself in the mirror and burn a little paint off the walls. I don't see this team ranked in the top ten at the end of this season.
In coaching hierarchy, I see Pat summit at 9th. She still has fire on game day, but has become complacent at preparing the team for the upcoming opponent. Our players come in with certain talents and demonstrate very little refinement for the next four years. Name me a player that is better now than they were two or three years ago. Glory Johnson would be an All American at U Conn, Baylor, Stanford, Vanderbilt, LSU, Rutgers, Duke, or North Carolina.
I am saddened and disapointed with Pat. The Lady Vols were confused at doing routine things like putting the ball in play after the opponent made a basket. Executing a three on two fast break...forget it. Blocking out for rebounds...forget it. Assisting each other when being double teamed bringing the ball up the court...forget it. The Pat Summit STARE has become STALE. When the players themselves start laughing at Pat while sitting behind her on the bench indicates that something has happened.
I have, I do, and I always will be a Lady Vols fan. I can't believe that I am writing this, but I believe it needed to be said.
Vol72 writes:
You are so obsessed with UT Lady Vols. Please tell me who does UCONN play. UT plays quality opponets week in and week out. We don't beat up on cupcake teams. Lets switch schedules and see how long your win streak will last. Don't get me wrong UCONN is great, but they do not play quality opponets week in and week out. You know that and I know that. Where were you in 2007 & 2008? When we won those back to back NCs or when CP3 dunked on your home court. We don't have to take recruits to tour ESPN studios to get them to come to UT. UCONN doesn't play anybody. UCONN plays Lehigh, Howard, Holy Cross, Sacred Heart. Are you kidding me?
Vol72 writes:
If UT would of shot at a better percentage they would of won the game. The game plan was great a sagging man to man and switch on everthing. We they went to that defense Baylor struggled. The officiating was just terrible. My gosh let them play. That it is why it is so hard to watch Women's Basketball the officiating sucks! If they meet again I will put my money on UT. Played much better than last year's Sweet 16 game.
RLL59 writes:
Instead of playing smarter and calmer, as Baylor did, the Lady Vols played 'harder'...but without a purpose or a method of winning. The result was 17 turnovers and 5 assists. Meighan shot 6 for 21, had 0 assists and 4 turnovers. And quite a few posters here raved about her game.
Posters blame Coach Lockwood even though the Lady Vols outrebounded Baylor by 10 and they were playing against the best center in the country. If he's at fault, it's for not telling them they can't get shots off when Griner is in the area.
Other posters trash Shekinna and Angie and want them benched; nevermind that they are the two best players on the team, and both play a selfless game.They both had a bad shooting game, but Shekinna led the team in rebounds with 11. Angie was 4 for 12 and was second to Meighan in points with 10.
The better team won tonight, and, frankly, the team with more talent and better preparation won.
The Lady Vol coaches and the players have to do better to have a chance against Stanford.
freestyle writes:
The game has passed CPS. That's why the top recruited players would rather play for UCONN.If anyone was listening to the commentators tonight. They said Simmons wanted to go to UCONN,but she decided to come to Tenn. with the help of Candace Parker. I think Pat is still under a contract until 2014-2015. It would be nice to see Nikki Cadwell or Candace Parker coaching at Tenn. Nikki has the experience and Candace has the playing experience and popularity. They wouldn't have a problem recruiting players.
PINK_CHAMPAGNE writes:
Just voicing your opinion as we all do here! But I agree with you. I would have benched Stricklen. And until she takes the court and acts like she wants to play, Pat should do the same thing she did to Angie, by benching Angie, and do it to Stricklen. No player is above the team. Effort should be applied in every game.
uconnfan1 writes:
y'all don't really want to see us in the final four cus that would be a butt whipping for y'all.
uconnfan1 writes:
pat summitt IS ut without her they have nothing.her players need to learn how to play with PASSION like kara lawson and other former players did.they have NO passion or desire to win.she should run them till they drop.
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