Watching with Ward
Tennessee Stat Book
NASHVILLE - Gerald Jones needed a rules tutorial.
When the Tennessee receiver got one before an official review was over, he knew bad news was coming.
The Vols were at the center of yet another chaotic finish with extra players on the field, and after already having one potential win ripped away from them this season due to their own penalty, Jones expected the worst in a 30-27 loss in double overtime on Thursday night in the Music City Bowl at LP Field.
Now the best he and coach Derek Dooley can hope for is that the next time a situation like the one that plagued them twice this season comes up, the rules will protect them.
"That's why they have a 10-second runoff rule in the NFL, and we don't have it in college," Dooley said. "We probably should get it, probably should get it.
"It was chaos again, they run a bunch of guys on the field and nobody - the umpire doesn't jump up to stop and allow a substitution. They allow them to snap the ball and they get a penalty. That allowed them to bring their field-goal team on and kick it with one second. I don't know what else to say."
It was a similar response to Dooley's post-game press conference after a brutal loss at LSU, though that time it was the Vols who had too many players on the field - allowing the Tigers one final snap to pull out a 16-14 victory.
The defense was obviously on the field then as well, but this time it was the Tar Heels (8-5) who had extra bodies lined up for a last-gasp spike to stop the clock to try a kick that would force overtime. If the game had been played under professional rules, the game would have been over due to 10-seconds being taken off the clock because of the infraction. But under NCAA rules, North Carolina was given one final tick thanks to the same penalty that had doomed the Vols (6-7) when they did it.
Even worse to Dooley, he was again left to wonder why the officiating crew didn't stand over the ball to allow him enough time to change his personnel.
"Well, when they ran guys on the field, the field-goal unit, the rule states that the umpire should step over the ball and allow a substitution to happen," Dooley said. "You know, I don't know. I guess there wasn't enough time to do that. What do you say?
"We had a lot of chances prior to that."
At another level, the Vols would have already done enough that they wouldn't need to worry about a missed extra point or a couple costly turnovers.
And if Jones does make a roster next year in the NFL, he won't need a teammate like David Oku to tell him how the scenario should be playing out.
"I had no idea, actually Oku told me that was happening when they spiked the ball - yeah, they get the penalty, but they still get the ball," Jones said. "They still get the chance to have another play because there was time on the clock. I was like, 'Wow.'
"It hurts, man. You can't explain the feeling that it is on the field, this probably hurts a little worse because it is my last game and I did play my heart out. Unfortunately I didn't get to go out with a bang. It sucks. I'm not the one to judge anybody or have any say so in how the rules are (applied), but you know, this thing happened to us twice in one year, man. Something needs to be different."
It might be a year from now. But it won't help the Vols get over either loss this season.
Austin Ward covers Tennessee football. He may be reached 865-342-6274. Follow him at http://twitter.com/Vols_Beat and http://blogs.knoxnews.com/ward
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Comments » 95
britt writes:
still in shock. every time i see a replay it hurts worse. prob wont feel any better til aprils orange and white game
midnite__VOL writes:
what a load of phooey!!
mobil1 writes:
Rule 11, Section 1 of the rule book says the officials no longer have jurisdiction over the game once the referee declares it over. Before the replay of the last spike, the referee declared the game over. Technically, per the rules, the game is over.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/produ...
Jediphysics writes:
At the end of the day, the problem is it came down to a last second play. We need more separation... and now the men's basketball team seems to be repeating that kind of mistake with these ridiculous 1 point losses to lesser teams. This year truly tests my devotion to UT. You've got to be a real fan to put up with this and keep watching...
mattsworld13 writes:
Quit your crying! You have to blame everyone but yourself. Just win the game on the field, the officials are part of the game. There's reason you had to buy your way out of playing the heels, and we settled it on the field!
TommyJack writes:
It would be refreshing if CDD would cuss, break things, say we got jobbed, etc..... Seriously.
mattsworld13 writes:
the truth is in the video
mattsworld13 writes:
what do china and tenneessee have in common. censureship nice freedom of speech
OrangeinCarolina2 writes:
It's like deja vu all over again.
sidwalkvol writes:
First we lose because WE have too many players on the field. Tonight we lose because THEY have too many players on the field. There is something WAY wrong...
Cartersvillevol writes:
We need CDD to tell us the obvious?
skyhawk836 writes:
That's an awesome point.
Dang, this bothers me.
GoGamecocks writes:
You vols fans weren't upset two years ago when your kicker missed a last second field goal against South Carolina, but you got to kick it again because of a false start penalty which allowed you to win that game. Have you already forgotten how you benefited from these same rules?
smokey_vols#336011 writes:
Email Dooley, Slive, and the President and tell them that.
TommyJack writes:
Not us, but the team might.
kyletrktr writes:
what is both BS and ironic, is that while the refs were trying to follow one rule, they broke two rules. unheard of...
bjrhodes01 writes:
"Substitution rules infraction" is a 5 yard penalty and "Illegal participation" is a 15 yard penalty. UNC had 12 players set (6 OL, 1 QB, 3 WR, 1 holder, 1 kicker) for the final play of the game and 5-6 running off. With both penalties occurring, the larger penalty should have been enforced. Not so sure that FG would have been good from 49 yards.
highVOLtage writes:
Why is no one at the KNS saying that UNC had 12 players lined up on the last play of regulation, in addition to the 5 players trying to run off the field. By rule UNC should have been assessed a 15 yard penalty rather than just 5 yards. And how did the replay officials miss it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJm2g2...
jack_2222#231746 writes:
Interesting point about allowing time for the defense to substitute if the offense substitutes. UNC's bringing in some of their field unit constitutes subsituting and UT should have had adequate time to respond to the offensive substitutions and the clock would have ran out. The ball should never have been snapped, the umpire should have stood over it. If UNC had not substituted then they could have grounded the ball. That is the real penalty- that loss of time- which UNC deserved because of their substitution blunder.
Vols4Ever writes:
If a better example ever existed that a winner is not solely determined by numbers on a scoreboard, one would be greatly challenged to provide a better one than the result of the Music City Bowl game.
My memory of what dire (or lack of any) future existed for my beloved VOLS 11 months ago when a person of irreproachable moral character such as Al Davis had publicly described the worst hire ever at UT a "lair" left our program at the absolute worst time, is now erased and visions of our great future with a coach and leader of a team with incredible young talent will take the field in 2011 and years to come.
Can't wait until the New Year and especially 2012 when this team is seasoned and the schedule will be more favorable.
Although first time ever I've seen an official on the field announce the end of a game and then play continues.
dead_vol_foul (Inactive) writes:
simple rule change to end all this garbage:
substitutions for both teams must occur within the first 10 seconds after the ball is set 'ready for play'. Period.
dead_vol_foul (Inactive) writes:
oops, gotta add:
and the ball will not be snapped prior to the 10-second runoff.
bosscat writes:
In addition to the fact that the ref should stand over the ball until both teams are set, how about how fast the ref got the ball from where the player was tackled to where the ball could be snapped by NC--he picked it up and literally ran to get the ball in a position to be snapped and then did not stand over the ball to give the defense time to get set or get subs in as the rules state. And to remind those that wish Dooley would complain about the call to the world--well, that would get him in trouble with the SEC and the NCAA, and also set him up using it as an lame excuse for losing the game. We, on the other hand, can cuss and discuss how the end of the game was handled, or mishandled, by the refs to our heart's content. All of that said, other than we did not get a W, I feel the game was a confirmation about the upward direction that our Vols are going. It was said, many times, by the announcers that the teams were evenly matched and, for once, I agree. ESPN also showed several times that NC had 7 players that will be probably be drafted--we had none. What does that say about our younger players? At the same time, it's apparent we still need more and that early playing time is waiting for new recruits if they are up to it. The stands were full of Tennessee fans cheering. It was an exciting game that probably was watched by a large audience, including a bunch of possible recruits. We can regret the loss and complain how the end of the game was handled, but in every other way it was a win.
Bigger_Al writes:
I don't agree with the penalty on Janzen Jackson. He obliterates the guy after he touches the ball, in bounds, and he leads with his shoulder pad. It wasn't helmet to helmet. So they step off 15 yards for hitting the guy too hard, then UNC snaps the ball and complete a short pass and the guy is tackled. The clock looks like it is going to run out, but the refs come in and review the previous play, giving UNC a timeout. And yes, I also thought the illegal participation penalty was 15 yards since they had more than 11 lined up.
Frustrating. I know you have to play through all this stuff, and I don't think the refs did it intentionally. But in the end, they kept giving UNC a chance to kick the field goal.
dgcarter43 writes:
Guys, I agree with everything you've said, but, when Tenn. took over with 1:20 left to play, North Carolina should not get the ball back. When the only thing you've done all game successfully is pass, why not complete a pass to pick up a first down, then run out the clock. The play calling was too conservative, playing not to lose instead of playing to win. Sound familiar?
AirForceVol2786 writes:
I agree completely. I want some fire!
madisonvillevol writes:
just make the stupid extra point and we ain't havin' this discussion....good grief, think i would rather have charlie brown as on that kick, dangest effort i ever saw....pitiful.
seaplane#216536 writes:
Is there anyway this game can come under an official protest since it was such a unbelievable mistake on the part of the officials? I mean declaring the game over and UT the winner and than reversing it. Huge mistake.
VolsFanInNC writes:
From what I was hearing, it was because he left his feet and "launched" himself at the receiver. Either way, I still say the pass was incomplete. He bobbled it in the air, was bobbling it on the ground, and landed parly out of bounds while the ball was not secure.
volaholic45 writes:
Everybody knows, Matt, that your world would be crying foul had the ref's game over declaration held up, and your TIVO showed you there was one second left after the spike. And it's in your world and nobody else's that a two-overtime game proves that the losing team can't compete. Hope I'm not arguing with a 13 year old.
VolGraduate writes:
Why are you so negative all the time? You are depressing
VolGraduate writes:
Let me know when you find a penalty free team that doesn't celebrate
Mtnbiker writes:
Sigh...that hurt...it HURT ALOT. I'm mailing an complaint to NCAA asking for a rule change. Won't do a bit of good, but I'll feel a tiny bit better.
VolFanInTheBoro (Inactive) writes:
Yeah and your son couldn't get into Vandy, flunked out of UT and has to join the peace corps
shulessjo writes:
Thanks for sharing this. I laid awake until 2:00 am thinking there had to be SOMETHING out there that COULD NOT allow a game to continue after it was offcially ruled over on the field. Otherwise every jerk wad team in America would be dragging a team back out to replay some part of the game they didn't like... in the end... The REFs screwed up and I hope the NCAA has the courage to say so....
feathersax writes:
They didn't even enforce the 5-yard penalty on the UNC kick...though the rule book clearly states illegal participation is a 15-yard penalty. Just one of many zebra gaffs...but if our kicker PAT up, no discussion.
eduardo writes:
boy they sure didnt miss it against LSU. Everyone that commented on that last play said the same thing should have been a 15 yd penalty. That crew ought to be docked or suspended. The field goal try would have been 49 yds instead of 39 yds. Unbelievable!!!
McMinnVol writes:
And what happens if we throw for it once or twice and have incomplete passes, which stop the clock and allow them to keep one or two timeouts? I agreed with the decision at the time and still do. This is not the same coaching mind set as the one to which you refer from the past.
GO VOLS!
larry#1388664 writes:
We're all devastated, but this is not true! The officials in the booth can "always" overturn a ruling made on the field. It's no different for a "game over" call.
tel61460 writes:
Here's the rules tutorial for the end of this game--
(1) With NC shifting between kicking and regular units, the officials should not have permitted a snap until UT had a chance to promptly substitute--GAME OVER, UT WINS!
(2) When the referee declared that time had expired and the game was over, the game was over and the officials had no further right of review--GAME OVER, UT WINS!
(3) There were clearly 2 penalties on UNC: illegal participation (12 players lined up) AND illegal substitution to confuse the other team (how much more confusing can it be than to have the holder and the kicker lined up in position behind the quarterback?); as opposed to garden variety illegal substitution. Both penalties carry a 15 yard penalty, not a 5-yard penalty; meaning the FG attempt would have been a 50 yarder--UT PROBABLY WINS!
(4) And finally, the clock was to restart when the ball was set, NOT when it was snapped; unlikely that UNC gets the snap off before the second expires--GAME OVER, UT WINS!
While I agree that it should never have come down to all this being relevant, its hard to believe that the officiating crew missed all 5 of the above calls on 1 play at the end of the game. If they got any of them right, we win. I hope this is fully addressed somewhere and that the guilty are penalized (which should include apologies to our kids).
SIMSVOL writes:
Big picture - the VOLS are on their way back. Did you see Dooley's passion on the sidelines last night? His passion and love for the game is contagious - his team shows it on the field. Never saw Fulmer show that kind of passion on the field - always wanted him to. The VOLS are on the way back to the top. Go VOLS!
dcap8424 writes:
Clock starts after an offensive penalty when the ball is set. No imaginable way for them to snap the ball with 1 second left. As soon as the ball is set the game is over.
midnite__VOL writes:
Very good point, A fire has been set for UT football!!
Ga_Dave writes:
Just a devastating loss, I am almost speechless. There needs to be something to protect the defense when the offense pulls tricks like this. I believe the clock should have been started as soon as ball was set, not when snapped IF it was an offensive penalty. Would have been different if it had been a defensive penalty (like at LSU). At any rate, I hope the recruits see what we saw in the future opportunity.
kd45music writes:
As far as I'm concerned, we finished 8-5 this year. Twice, poor officiating turned the tide against us. While it is true we had chances to put this one away before the tying field goal, this is a very young team that will only get better over the next two years. It was a disappointing way to end a frustrating season, but the future looks brighter. It's still a long way back, but we'll get there. Go Vols!
eduardo writes:
True so true all of sudden it really matters to us all!!!!
Volumnus writes:
Hmmmm, seems this downturn started when Hamilton was hired.... Break the jinx, LOL!!!
bnakk#240693 writes:
Its not like we didn't have plenty of chances, and I'm just sick over the missed PAT, but we got fracked by the officials again. How could they flag Janzen for that awesome hit. We are playing football for crying out loud and he is trying to separate the opponent from the ball. Then the helmet throwing thing after the clock had expired.....really. Again, failing to handle the substitution thing correctly, illegal participation vs too many men on the field, etc.... Hopefully, Dooley can recruit some kids that will be good enough that we will beat the phooey out of some people and the zebras won't mean so much anymore.
james#216392 writes:
On an imcomplete pass, the time doesn't start until the ball is snapped. The spike was an incomplete pass.
volsbandit writes:
He wouldn't have made it especially with him kicking it against the wind.
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