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Maybe it was just a bit of football gravity.
Tennessee was seemingly on such a high over the last couple of weeks, it was bound to get grounded eventually.
New coach Derek Dooley surely would have preferred the recent positive run for the Vols to not end quite so dramatically, and he definitely wasn't thrilled it did so with a pair of arrests for a bar brawl, the dismissal of a projected starter and indefinite suspensions for two other players.
Dooley has acknowledged from the start the culture change he's undertaking wouldn't be easy, though surely nobody thought it would be so busy in the usually boring summer months.
"Hopefully the next time we'll be in front (the media) it will be a little better news," Dooley said after wrapping up his press conference Friday night. "But we have had a lot of good things happening prior to this."
The Vols have largely only had positive things going on since school let out, and the ball had really been rolling their way lately.
Dooley started generating some buzz by hiring Andre Lott to head up his Vol for Life/Character Education Program a little more than two weeks ago, bringing in a former player to help serve as a sort of guidance counselor for the program.
And in terms of on-field impact UT was receiving good news in waves.
Dooley picked up the No. 1 punter in the country from the class of 2010 in Matt Darr, a former Fresno State signee who was released from his enrollment and will have eligibility this fall.
The Vols also picked up another player who can play right away in defensive lineman Malik Jackson, a junior who took advantage of an NCAA penalty imposed on Southern California that allowed him to transfer without sitting out a season.
Even better in terms of public relations for Dooley, both players had direct ties to former UT coach Lane Kiffin.
The Vols were also able to snag a pair of commitments to fill out the 2011 signing class, adding quarterback Justin Worley and defensive tackle Allan Carson over the last nine days.
There were a couple hiccups with wide receiver Todd Campbell leaving the program and UT needing to put out a small fire when a report leaked it had turned down an opportunity to play Kiffin in the Chick-fil-A Kickoff Classic next season, but neither of those were really significant problems.
Campbell wasn't likely to contribute for a roster crowded with talented targets in the passing game, and the proposed meeting with the Trojans was never actually offered by the school.
And certainly by comparison, those issues are virtually irrelevant compared with the Friday-morning fight at Bar Knoxville which led to the indefinite suspensions of linebacker Greg King and defensive tackle Marlon Walls, the arrest of freshman Da'Rick Rogers and a second arrest for Darren Myles - and the safety's dismissal from UT.
The toughest part for Dooley at the moment is the incident likely overshadows the recent progress as well.
"Well, it was a very similar message (to the players Friday) and a similar talk that we've had before about how important our team wants to change our brand and how we represent this place," Dooley said. "We just really set us back.
"It's no different than your character. You could spend 20 years building your character and one bad mistake can destroy it. So we've got to start over and rebuild, and we'll do that. We've got a lot of great leaders on this team who are really disappointed and so are some of the other guys on the team, and I expect them to all rally and handle it the right way. I think that a lot of the culture is probably perceived worse than it is, and it always is because we have some great young men who want to do right - and who are doing right."
That's largely been the theme for the Vols all summer.
Now Dooley will be testing that gravity and the ability of his program to bounce back up.
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Comments » 56
Razor784 writes:
It seems like it's always something with the football program, it's like deja vu all over again, I think it's a curse
gatorhator4eva writes:
i agree, we need to get to winning on and off the field. I think were in good hands with Dooley.There will always be a few select troublemakers in every team. They are kids.
tn_rockytop writes:
well if you look and notice the three players that were suspended were all kiffen recruits and were the ones that were probally involved the others were trying to stop it that makes 8 of his recruits from last year suspended or gone it will take time and dooley will straiten things up
AtLeastMyTeamHasPerfectSeasons writes:
That pic of Myles and Da'Rick running out of jail-bonding sure will get made fun of somehow my opponents' fans this year. Its almost SNL-like...
volpreacher writes:
I think everyone jumps to conclusions. First of all let me say, I do not approve of anything that was done. But I'm old enough to realize this isn't the first time a teenager has screwed up. And it definitely won't be the last. And UT isn't the only place it happens. For some reason though, this paper sensualizes every bad thing that happens. It is almost like they want things to go bad. Could it be they supported Fulmer? Well, he is gone and won't be back, thank goodness. We are in great hands with Dooley and this is only a small set back that will be taken care of. Either way, look forward to a successful season this year. Go vols!!!
tdforvols writes:
Banning all players from entering any bars & nightclubs while on the team would be a good start.
DooleysOrangePants writes:
this year is a wash anyway. get rid of the trouble makers and lets get this thing rolling. cdd did the right thing as far as am concerned.
murrayvol writes:
Not as much as Myles gettin' run down by a UT Police Officer.
cjones72 writes:
You are right UT isnt the only place that had players that got in trouble this weekend the DE from IOWA got arrested for driving drunk friday night .
bornin47 writes:
Gotta love the "series of pluses". Coach walks out and leaves you swinging in the wind, is there anyplace to go but up?
Tgordon writes:
Remember way back when, back in the days when UT was a football school? Way back when a story like this would have REALLY been news. Way back when UT's program was mentioned along with the FL and AL football instead of KY's and Vandy's. Would the NCAA allow moving the football program to the ACC while still keeping the basketball team in the SEC? Just asking...........
nola_vol writes:
"...though surely nobody thought it would be so busy in the usually boring summer months."
Does anybody realize how boring the summer routine of a committed (to improvement) football player is? Summer is EXACTLY when these things occur because your day started in the weight room, outside for conditioning drills, time running routes for skill position players with coverage practice for defenders, back indoors if the heat index gets dangerous, back to the weight room, mix in 1 or 2 summer classes... supper... requisite early evening study time... THEN FINALLY you have just a few hours late in the evening freed from the schedule!
Maybe you stay in and play video games several evenings, but 7 days a week? --that gets old. The now forbidden "athlete dormitories" once solved a lot of these problems (and created other problems).
The on-field, glory payoff for all your hard work is still months away, so you're instinctively looking for some reward for (and affirmation of) the life of physical discipline and denial you've been subjecting your body to. So you want to go out and be seen, be recognized for who you are, and do so in a relaxing (but, at the same time, socially stimulating) atmosphere.
So players go out (you only have a few hours respite before the training regimen begins all over early next morning) in groups (safety in numbers, plus, there's sincere, healthy camaraderie being developed) to places where they can be recognized, meet people, feel special, WITHOUT expending a lot of energy or money.
It's very much like joining the military. Have you ever driven through a town near a military base? It's blocks of tattoo parlors, "massage" parlors, strip clubs, adult video stores, and BARS! And in every one of those places there's someone who can direct you where to get what they can't advertise. Now imagine what that part of town would look like if military personnel didn't have much money... and you've got a picture of what greets UT athletes when they leave campus.
I say none of this to defend what players have done, recently or in the past--but ONLY TO MAKE THE POINT that this is a VERY DIFFICULT problem.
Even if 90% of the football players we recruit are virginal boy scouts with a spartan work ethic, that leaves 9 out of our 88 who are susceptible.
That said, the answer is not to simply lower our expectations. But we've got to realize that finding a long-term solution is going to demand some creativity and a lot of support from the Knoxville community.
nocleats writes:
I truly dont believe it is a football problem or even an athelete problem. Its a culture thing. I wonder how many students, ( out of 20,000 +) are arrested or have run ins with the law on a monthly basis. The only difference is that when sophomore John Doe is busted it doesnt make the news.
eboo57#212060 writes:
These players are given a free ride to college.This is a $100,000 gift. Play football, attend classes and keep your nose clean. If they can't do that, put them back where the they came from and let someone else babysit them.
GreerVol22 writes:
look...when you get 70-80 of these guys in one location, not all of them will be saints. Many of these kids have never had as much as they do right now and are simply not mature enough to handle it. I really can't remember a year, regardless of the coach, or program, that stuff like this doesn't happen. Yes, it sucks, but far more positive happening than negative. The media (KNS) always sensationalizes these stories to create the atmosphere of doom...just be smart enough to see thru it.
cloudodust writes:
This isn't a case of boys just being boys. An off duty cop is in the hospital after a brutal beatdown by members of our football team. Can't sweep this one away so easy. Man, just give me a case of underage consumption, NOT DUI, any day.
BIGORANGEDOG writes:
Great post NOLA_VOL, spot on. The Knoxville community and the businesses that surround the campus have to be a part of the fix. Yeah we all get excited when we grab a multi star recruit, or read about one that is interested, but the community and especially the area around the campus (aka The Strip) needs to have the backs of these young people and of the meal ticket that they are riding (the University). None of us believe for a second that no one in that bar saw anything starting way before they were asked to leave. That is ridiculious to suggest that. If the campus wasn't that close then none of these places would survive and even with it alot don't make it from one season to the next. For the most part there is not a business down there that draws the average person to them. These businesses are primarily student and young adult driven. Believe me I enjoy these establishments as much as the next fan during the seasons, but when it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck it usually is a lame duck. These places need to sit down with the powers to be at UT and work out some sort of understanding, establish certain guidelines. In the end though it is always up to that individual to act like a decent human being, else the University could just buy them all out and add more and better student housing.
BillyVol writes:
If you are talking about Lott, I understand his first day is not until Monday.
TKO writes:
Looks to me that there should be a better process in place for recruiting. Do you recruit just on athletic ability, if so, you will always have these problems. Not making excuses, but many of these kids have had very little guidance and support growing up except a coach telling them to play ball and play hard. They go to "any" school based on this and then find themselves with unbridled freedom and no childhood lessons to avoid trouble. If any university wants a program with fewer problems, I say know who you are recruiting and look at yourself as well. Don't bring a rabid dog in your house and then get mad when it bites someone.
leedsvol2007 writes:
From accounts of this the incident got started when another patron went after Montori Hughes.
Somewhere in human nature there is the need for males to show that they are as big and bad as the next guy. Football players, boxers, and other athletes are targets for this type of aggression.
If Hughes was attacked he had the right and probably the need to defend himself. Unfortunately the incident escalated from there and the lack of judgment shown by some adolescent football players turned this into a major incident.
As a student at UT some 40 years ago I did my share of drinking and carousing until the wee hours of the morning and to a certain degree it is part of the college experience.
However, you still have to use some good judgment to avoid situations where you can run afoul of the law.
Myles had to learn the hard way and hopefully the off duty police officer will make a full recovery.
UT football players need to learn to diffuse situation and walk away if possible from jerks that want to challenge their manhood. The place for aggression is on the football field not in a barroom brawl.
If I had a piece of advice for the players it would be nothing much good happens after 2:00 am. Make sure your at your residence before that hour.
GoVols!
ctcblueoval writes:
It appears that some of the football players at
UT need to get some "MANHOOD TRAINING". Until they
are willing and able to accept the fact that they
are not in the hood and acting like common street thugs, they need to grow up, especially
when they are or were in college on a full
scholarship at somebody elses expense. There are
to many young people who know how to conduct
themselves in public who would appreciate having
their college education paid for. As for the bar
owners, from all indications they were violating
NCAA rules, and those players involved knew that.
Also, what were they doing in that bar, especially if they were under 21 and why were they allowed in? Those football players, and
any others involved in college sports, ARE NOT
celebrities in any sense of the word. They are
students who are supposed to be getting an educa-
tion FIRST, not becoming involved in bar brawls
and causing a police officer to be seriously
injured by their gang style tactics. I would hope
all involved are punished to the full extent of
the law, period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WhiteHotBleedOrange writes:
Witch Doctor...where are you?? How 'bout some chicken bones and snake oil to remove this curse?
"Now do do that voodoo that you do so well!!"
-Hedley Lamar, Blazing Saddles
DaddyVol writes:
I'm just thankful they weren't wearing red panties!
Pompey writes:
No...its a transition. Many important aspects of this program has been neglected for years and Dooley is faced with the task of fixing it....and he will.
Pompey writes:
They will laugh until their players get caught doing worse.....
ThunderVol2020 writes:
Does anyone actually know what happened? Everyone just assumes the Vol players beat down the cop. Was there only Vol players in the bar? Is it not a possibility that other patrons not associated with the Vol football program may have jumped in. Granted these players should not have been there to get in this situation, but until we finally know exactly who did what, lets not condem all of the players that were there.
GreeneVol_TN writes:
Couldn't have said it better!!!
licknpromise777#651578 writes:
It takes any new coach 2 years to get a team as a whole to establish what might be considered institutional control..Much of that depends on player leadership..Sometimes it never works..Look at Mark Richt at GA..You would be hard pressed to find a christian coach of better integrity; He leads by example as a good christian does and is repaid with arrest after arrest by these idiots..Same can be said for Bowden..As a coach it's got to be hard to pass on a 4 or 5 star recruit the whole nation is after because of average grades and questionable character..Fans expect coaches to put great players on the field and WIN!!!Of the 7 or more new recruits for 2011 it appears Dooley is following through with his promise of having more emphasis on grades and character..But it's still a phooey shoot.Kiffin could care less about such things;He recruits the best players possible and hopes it will work out.
bluetick writes:
Agreed. With his PANTS ON THE GROUND! If these people only knew how stupid they looked, they probably wouldn't do it.
nola_vol writes:
BIGORANGEDOG wrote: "These places [businesses around the campus] need to sit down with the powers to be at UT and work out some sort of understanding, establish certain guidelines."
I like your idea. A long-term solution has to find a way to use the free market to encourage and support the kinds of establishments parents, coaches, and we fans want to be available for our student-athletes.
What if the University issued a "seal of approval" decal to those businesses which provide venues for social recreation (my euphemism) that operate in compliance with the guidelines set out by the university or athletic department? The business displays the highly visible decal on their front door so that students, alumnae, and fans can know immediately what kind of establishment they're about to spend their money supporting.
Such an approach shouldn't encounter any legal problems, since any establishment that rejects the guidelines is free to use their non-compliance as their appeal to a rowdier segment of the market. (I'm visualizing joints with names like "Undeclared Major's" or "NoClassTonight" -- and if I owned a place that WAS in compliance, I'd call it "Hamilton's Beach.")
Posters with more knowledge than I should weigh-in on this idea (not the names). Is this doable, and what would it really take to make something like it work year-after-year?
douglasawilliams#582863 writes:
If it was just a simple bar room fight I'm thinking no huge deal. This happens to thousands of college age kids. But, 4 on 1 beating and kicking an off duty officer when he is down and now in serious condition- really big deal. Now these are rumors I'm hearing without any known credibility. Hopefully, it isn't as bad as I have heard. If Marlon Walls kicked an off duty police officer while he was on the ground he is looking at jail/prison time. I'm not saying that happened just some rumors are suggesting this is the case.
hueypilot writes:
With all the money invested in the football program, considering the harm bad apples can do. is any kind of psychological evaluation or inquiry into anything other than the kid's athletic skills? NFL teams do significant research before they spend a draft choice. Tennessee football is a pretty big business enterprise and could afford to do a little looking into what kind of kid we're getting, outside of his athletic prowess.
Like previous poster, if the kid's belt was six inches below his jockey short waist band, he could go somewhere else. And if that's gonna put us in the ACC, so be it. Tired of these punks making my school a laughing stock.
SummittsCourt writes:
Dooley is the man! We'll take some lumps this year, but 2012 will be our year!
Tgordon writes:
Seems this just you wait till next year started around 1999 or so.
rockytopatl writes:
What do want the newspaper to do? Ignore the news? They need to keep on "sensualizing" news events so we know what's happening.
And it's also kind of amazing you accuse them of "supporting Fulmer" when Adams was the first in town to call for his firing.
Colliervol writes:
If you bothered to check some facts before spouting, you'd know that den mother Andre doesn't start work till tomorrow. Sort of hard to make a difference when you aren't there yet.
"They all should be off the team and scholarships given to deservings students." Once again, another erstwhile "fan" that wants us to be Vanderbilt. Don't get me wrong. I don't cotton to this type of junk either but one has to make a choice. You either play in the big league or you don't. As of now, we are playing in the big leagues so the coaches and atheletic dept. has to do what it has to do to compete. And, for now, that means bringing in kids from poor backgrounds. Unless of course you know of some "deserving students" that can sell 100,000 seats at $50.00 a head to watch them solve math equations or turn on a Bunsen burner.
realpacman writes:
If the boy wasn't in uniform, why make it sound as if anyone was supposed to know that he was a cop? Even for a cop, he didn't have much common sense. You know how you don't get hurt in a bar fight? You don't go around looking to find one.
Colliervol writes:
Huey, you ask a great question. I could be wrong but I think there is a limited amount that coaches can find out about a kid's past history short of hearsay and getting his high school coaches or friends to rat him out. (And if you get some "friend" who says bad things about the kid, you never know what sort of agenda that "friend" has.)
We need a lawyer to clue us in but I had heard that coaches can't access a kid's juvenile records. The reason I say that was what occurred with the Willie Williams case with Miami a few years back. If I'm not mistaken, Miami didn't know the kid has a juvenile rap sheet because they couldn't access his records. That would be interesting info if somebody could confirm what a coach has access to and what he doesn't.
cjones72 writes:
A quick question how do we know that it was one of the TENNESSEE players that hit and kicked the cop and not the guy that was with them that wasnt on the team . just wondering because no one has said who it was that hit the cop . everyone is just assumeing it was a member of the team.
budd#207344 writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
hueypilot writes:
I'm sure you're right about the "privacy" concerns regarding minors. Don't get me started on the abuse of the fourth amendment "protections" at the expense of society . But I know private investigators can conduct background checks and find out whatever they are diligent enough to pursue. Great job for a former police detective or FBI guy. Hopefully they wouldn't take as long as the investigators in the USC/Reggie Bush deal, otherwise the recruit would be in grad school or prison before Dooley got the report.
GainesvilleVol1 writes:
First of all, I've never played Division I football, but I have a close friend who had a father who was a UT football legend, and played for UT. Some of the stories I have heard would make what happed last week seem tame. It's just the media is on top of every story, and there is no place to hide in today's modern world. Like I was told, "when you get a stable full of stallions" some of the horses are going to get loose. It happens at every university, however I haven't seen anything in the local Florida news. I was young once, and if I had been caught for every discretion I commetted, I would still be in the cross bar motel. Let' settle down, let CDD build up this program from the lowest point I can remember since Majors went 0-5, and move on.
I am, and will always be a VOL FOR LIFE!!!
GO VOLS!!!!!!
Mobbdeep4life writes:
On second thought.....never mind.
hueypilot writes:
It's all over the Florida Times Union in Jacksonville. But I don't think you can call putting a man in the hospital (he's still listed as serious condition) tame. This wasn't an accident. They didn't just fight until somebody said uncle. They apparently got this man on the ground and either kicked him while unconscious, or kicked him unconscious.
I went to school there when Emmanuel, Naumoff, Reynolds, some real animals were there. Never heard of them damn near beating a man to death.
cloudodust writes:
Maybe we should both re-read the police report...
GainesvilleVol1 writes:
I agree with you about not hearing about beating someone up in the era you are refering about, it's just that if it happend, it didn't get reported like today. I don't condone, or approve of the action of UT players, I just wanted to say, I have heard first hand of fights, where the parents were called to get their sons out of jail, and the incidents were not "tame". I will not drop names, but the times have changed, and hopefully the new character coach will have a positive infulence on reducing future incidents.
I agree with most, as I am tired of hearing so much bad press about UT, the team I love and have followed all my life. I remember sitting in my Dad's 60 Impala and listing to AM radio in our front yard in Etowah Tn, and remember all the great players. I then was fortunate to work for someone who was a former great, and had tickets to any game I cared to go to. We won some, and we lost some, but I am a Vol for life. I don't have the answers for our problems, which are plentiful. I do have confidence in CDD, and hopefully we will be back in my lifetime.
BTW, if Reynolds wanted to beat someone half to death, no one would have stopped him. It just wouldn't make the KNS paper the next day.
I hear what you are saying, and I don't disagree.
tnsportsman writes:
This is real simple; the NCAA needs to enact a rule prohibiting ANY transfer of a player that is kicked off one FBS (Division One) Team to another FBS Team for violation of Civil Law and/or NCAA/University Rules! This will STOP the THUGS because they would know their football career is in jeopardy!
Empower the Coaches and ADs in the NCAA FBS so they can make sure College Football is secured and maintained going forward!
My granddaddy use to say; ‘there is a simple solution to every problem, if you are willing to pay the price’
It will take years to reverse this THUG CULUTRE at Tennessee and ALL FBS schools! Let’s start now!
GO VOLS, WE ARE UT!
DaddyVol writes:
How about a playground complete with swing sets and a sand box?
DaddyVol writes:
They released testosterone by sawing cars in half.
cjones72 writes:
im talking about the off duty cop thats in the hospital not the one that chased darren miles down .
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