Lane Kiffin wasn't one for moral victories while coaching at Tennessee in 2009, but his near-miss upset as the Southern Cal coach against Stanford last Saturday has created a buzz.
Former UCLA coach Terry Donahue said on Monday's Scripps Legends Poll teleconference that Kiffin's coaching ability is underrated.
The visiting Cardinal beat the Trojans 56-48 in triple overtime.
"I know there's a lot of controversy around Lane in what happened with the Raiders and at Tennessee,'' Donahue said. "But just his coaching ability, general perception, people didn't have the proper appreciation for his ability to coach.
"He's a very fine young developing coach, and I think his team has shown really strong progress,'' he said. "They were not a good football team earlier this year when they played Minnesota. But they have gotten better and better, and their performance against Stanford was tremendous.''
Former Washington national championship coach Don James interjected that it's likely a matter of Kiffin growing up.
"Don't you think his dad (USC defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin) is a factor?'' James said. "It seems Lane has matured in the past two or three years.''
Former Auburn coach Pat Dye agreed.
"His team has gotten better, and he seems a lot more mature and a lot more sane than he did when he was at Tennessee,'' Dye said. "I thought he did a lot of stuff at Tennessee maybe to attract attention, and he did it purposely, getting in arguments and controversial situations.
"He wasn't doing business the way we want to do business in the Southeastern Conference.''
Dye said the formula for successful coaches in the SEC remains the same as when he coached his Tigers.
"Our ways have worked for a long time, you have to have a little more class and be more discreet about what you say and the way you conduct yourself,'' Dye said. "It appears to me (Kiffin) has moved forward. It might be (USC athletic director) Pat Haden, or his daddy, but he seems a lot more at peace with himself.''
Former Ohio State coach John Cooper said there's good reason for Kiffin to be more comfortable at Southern Cal than Tennessee.
"This is so simple: first of all, I would put Southern Cal as the best place to coach, if not at least top five, in the nation,'' Cooper said. California has 35 million people, 17 million in Southern California, and you're recruiting against UCLA, Cal-Berkeley and Stanford, and you just about have to have a 4.0 or a 30 on your ACT to get into those schools. Then, you have great junior college football out there.
"So the difference is talent.''
Cooper used Tennessee as a comparison to what Kiffin inherited when he left the Vols for the Southern Cal job two years ago.
"You just look at the difference in talent between Southern Cal and Tennessee, and those guys out there will get better,'' Cooper said. "Half-dozen of them will be high NFL draft picks.''
Cooper said Tennessee fans have likely gotten a reality check over the past few seasons.
"I think the other thing that's happening in Knoxville, people are realizing what a good coach Phillip Fulmer was,'' Cooper said. "Sometimes you don't appreciate the guy until he's gone.
Once you raise the bar as a coach, whatever you do isn't good enough.''
John Robinson, who on three occasions led USC to No. 2 finishes in the AP poll, said what's making Kiffin's accomplishment amazing is the youth on the team.
"The team had dropped off talent wise before Lane came in,'' Robinson said. "Pete Carroll's last two years, he didn't recruit as well, so the team is almost devoid of juniors and seniors of the caliber you would like to have.
"Lane is re-tooling the team,and he's been quiet and very mature in the way he has gone about things,'' he said. "In a year or so, USC will be in the thick of the BCS stuff, and all in all, you'd have to give him a high 'A.' ''
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Comments » 232
EastTNvolfan writes:
Give me a break.
ghost_of_which_doctor (Inactive) writes:
Oh boy...this is going to be a real doozy right here now......like throwing a T-bone in the lions den......
silverstang writes:
why are we even still talking about him?!
orangeman1 writes:
Boy, this article is about to get alot of posts. It basically said Kiffin and Fulmer are great coaches. I can agree with half of that. Also agree that fans are finding out just how hard it is to stay competitive as coach of UT. I just hope Dooley has as much success as Fulmer.
sol_way writes:
he should change his name to Lane Lombardi!
GoVols025 writes:
Gonna be a good ol' ETTPT convention right here on GVX! Whoaaaa nellie!
volinlm writes:
I agree with the statement about California being a better state to recruit. Everything else...Kiffin can go sc... himself.
JimmyJoe writes:
SO FREAKIN WHAT!?!?!?
lomas98 writes:
Comments posted meltdown in 3,2,1...
CoverOrange writes:
Platitudes, a dime a dozen.
cincivol writes:
NOT ONE CREDIBLE COACH WAS REFERENCED. THAT TELLS YOU ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW.
RomanRoomRedux (Inactive) writes:
There you have it from the experts. Kiffin can coach, Dooley can't. Fulmer could coach Dooley can't...Couldn't have said it better.Kiffin took Fulmer's mess goes 4-4 in the SEC with wins over S.C. and Ga. and goes to the Peach Bowl. Dooley loses a record SEC games and stays home.
But that's progress. Right?
drussell2k2#580001 writes:
"It seems Lane has matured in the past two or three years.''... this must have been stated prior to last Saturday's fiasco. He is an immature little baby who keeps the best athletes in college football at an average level. Daddy helps keep him competitive.
Chappy writes:
Why no comment from the Ole Ball Coach?
CantStandCantStandSaban writes:
"Lane Kiffin is probably one of the best coaches in the country"
- Rich Kotite
jcherrie#219531 writes:
They're also praising Al Queda's religious tolerance!
KenRan (Inactive) writes:
First we get this story about Lane's maturity, and then we get a story on the heels of this one that say's that Lane was fined $10'000 for critical comments about officiating. So much for the maturity story.
LaneBrains writes:
...And Monte is the best defensive mind in the history of football, and Ed can recruit like nobody else....and don't forget we recruited the most sought after recruit "in the history" of Tennessee Football (B. Brown)...we did the program there many favors.
Only Mike Hamilton and Mike Garrett really understood us, and now top PAC 12 legends are climbing on the bandwagon. Hard to take isn't Steve, Nick, Mark, Urban, Les?
We look forward to meeting on the field and demonstrating our great abilities!
CLK, Monte and Ed
RomanRoomRedux (Inactive) writes:
Boy Howdy...You hit the nail on the head. Not one credible source....especially old Pat Dye..That loser..Only 4 SEC championships in 11 years...only a winning record against top ten teams...only 10 staight bowl games..only 7-2-1 in bowl games...only a 7-3 record vs Bama...I'm so glad we have Derek Dooley instead of Pat Dye to turn our program around. I would never want a coach at Tennessee to do for us what Pat Dye did when he took over at Auburn...I'm just so glad we've got Derek Dooley "doing things the right way"....Right, you're a genius...not 1 credible source.
cooper65#432178 writes:
What they don't mention is that Lame is responible for a lot of our problems we have today. Basically 2 recruiting classes were damaged because of him. Also, he kept us in the eye of the NCAA with his comments and recruiting practices which probably scared off even more recruits. Maybe he did learn something, maybe Haden laid down the law, maybe Orangutan and the other coaches are still up to their old tricks.
snakeplissken writes:
Nothing credible with your post. Tells me all I need to know about you!
stantorini writes:
that still doesn't change the fact that this guy is a devious jerk who looks for ways to cheat the system....THAT will NEVER change! ba-bye lane...don't let the door hit your tush on your way out!
tennvolsman19651965 writes:
One part of this story is right! We shoulda never ran Fulmer out of town. Sometimes, you dont know what you had until it's gone. Oh yeah, Kiffin was a great coach. Look at what we have left of his recruits now!
TommyJack writes:
1. Fulmer DID need to go.
2. FHCLK was, and is, a POS.
3. FHCLK IS a good game-day coach.
Biggie writes:
Coach Pat Dye is very credible and a gentleman also. Kiffin is still a bum but your comment isn't accurate.
RomanRoomRedux (Inactive) writes:
Right Kiffin can't coach Dooley can...One things for sure about you Dooleave crowd, you're sure good a defining dumba_ss down. Try these actual quotes.
"Dooley and Wilcox drain the Swamp."
"Bray torches the Dawgs."
"Dooley can outcoach Miles, we'll get our revenge in Neyland."
"3rd Saturday in October. Throw out the record book in this one."
"Can't wait to see the Old Ball Coach throw that visor when we roast the chickens.
"We'll probably lose to Vanderbilt but it's only once every 10 years."
Yes - "Dooley's doing it the right way ". That 1-7 in the SEC (which will be a record) is just an illusion.
arkyvol writes:
admit it. the only coach hamilton ever hired who was worth a damn was kiffen.
GerryOP writes:
TJ speaketh the truth.
Hamilton's bggest mistake was not realizing that coaches being paid $2mil/$3mil/$4mil/whatever still need to be managed ... closely. A fatal mistake.
CLEMSONVOL716WASBANNED writes:
"Lane is re-tooling the team,and he's been quiet and very mature in the way he has gone about things,'' he said. "In a year or so, USC will be in the thick of the BCS stuff, and all in all, you'd have to give him a high 'A.' ''
Re-tooling is exactly what happened when left coast college hired Kiffin. CLK is the head tool there now.
Gotta give the devil his due though...KnoxVegas was not a boring town while Lane was in town. And yes, I think his coaching ability is improving. Just glad it's improving somewhere else.
WaltGoVols writes:
Firing Coach Fulmer was a giant mistake.
The fan base is largely ignorant and incapable of critical thinking, or that idea would have wider acceptance.
Walt
UT '81
SmokeDog1972 writes:
I have to admit I was one that said Fulmer needed to go a few years before it finally happened, but with the way things have been the last couple of years I am doing a little bit of second guessing.
Looking back, I still think Fulmer needed to go, but I was not on-board with the Kiffin hire and don't think the Dooley hire was the best we could have gotten. Hamilton wanted someone in place too soon to keep the recruiting class intact.
Now that we are over 1 1/2 years into the Dooley era, I don't see big strides in player development or in gameday coaching. I think Dooley and staff have some real depth and talent challenges, but they don't really seem to be striking fear into the hearts of other coaching staffs with their wits either.
I think he should get this year and next. If they are not one of the top two teams in the SEC East (or in the top 5 of the overall SEC) next year then he and his staff need to go.
I can live with top 5 in SEC in 2012 and top 3 in SEC in 2013. Other than that, he has not built anything over and above what Kiffen or Fulmer (in his average years) accomplished. I think that is fair to Dooley and to Vol fans.
bigOutfan writes:
Would you rather have Miles or Dooley as coach?
Witch_Doctors writes:
Witch Doctor not hate Kiffen but when Fisher says hes ready the are gonna kick Kiffen to the curb so quick..Witch Doctor say he is more on the hot-seat than Dooley by a long shot..Witch Doctor say Kiffen NEEDS to win out.
Bones never lie.
TommyJack writes:
So Walt. You ARE capable of critical thinking? Is that what you're saying?
Witch_Doctors writes:
Witch Doctor say hes going on the theory of "if you post 200 hundred times from 12am to 12am" it makes you smarter. Witch Doctor say "sports-board" learnin' makes you strong! lol
Bones never lie.
ghost_of_which_doctor (Inactive) writes:
I would rather have Dooley than Miles. To take it to the next step, at this stage of the game (Nov 1, 2011 people), I would rather have Dooley than the following:
I would rather have Dooley than Miles, Spurrier, Muschamp, Nutt, Richt, Mullen, Chizik, Petrino, Joker
Tossup between Dooley and Franklin.
As of Nov 1, 2011, I would prefer Saban over Dooley
.
VolzsFan writes:
Cooper hit the nail on the head. When you raise the bar of the program the dunderheads never appreciate it and whatever you do is not good enough even if you are still winning at a higher rate than the program had ever won in its history prior. That was basically what Cooper was saying....that and enjoy the change cause what you see now is about what you will get for the next couple of decades.
crappieking writes:
Fact - Fulmer stopped recruiting 5 years before he was fired.
Fact - Kiffin told Hamilton that the only job he would ever consider leaving TN for would be S.Cal.
Fact - A lot of our success was because of Chavis
and Cutcliff.
Fact - We are not improving weekly, we are getting worse.
Fact - Dooley will get another year, but if we don't see a big improvement (and I don't see it), he and his staff should be let go.
Fact - Like him or not, Kiffin is a better football coach than Dooley, especially game day.
PHAT_VOL writes:
You dont really belive that do you Darling?
RomanRoomRedux (Inactive) writes:
I'll give Mike Hamilton a hand for one thing. He certainly knew when he had a loser on his hands, in Dooley. If he hadn't bought us out of UNC we could be looking at 2-10 with Dooleave.
But that's progress because "Dooley's doing it the right way."
Witch_Doctors writes:
Witch Doctor say well put. Witch Doctor say no one HATES Fulmer...Witch Doctor say his record WITHOUT Cutcliffe is quite different than with and not to mention his last year of the CLAWFENSE(fulmer still calling most of the plays Florida on..) the game passed him by. Witch Doctor say the tragedy of all this is he is NEVER going to coach again and the idiots that argue this has/is(walt and all the merry men in his head) have done more to hurt his legacy than help it. Witch Doctor say because we all now see the *ugly side of Fulmer and family...and it aint pretty.
Bones never lie.
FearTheVols1252 writes:
I agree with most of what you said, I think the jury is still out on the last point. While I certainly can't say he's done a 'bad' job coaching, I also wouldn't start comparing USC's progress with UT's. Different schedules and different circumstances.
While I don't think our team would be 'elite' by any stretch of the imagination, I do believe all our games would have been much more competitive had our key players been there. If Kiffin experienced anywhere near the player attrition we have, I can guarantee you nobody would be singing his praises. If I'm not mistaken, his key play-makers are relatively healthy.
I also doubt anyone will be this high on Kiffin once he starts feeling the effect of his scholarship reductions. Then, like so many UT fans, they'll ignore the obvious problems and immediately demand for his resignation.
snakeplissken writes:
Loking back, I think we all underappreciated Fulmer, and overestimated Hamilton's ability to get us a proven coach who loved being at Tennessee. I don't blame Fulmer or Kiffin for the mess we have now, I blame Hamilton. He had two bad football hires for our program in one year and we're paying dearly for it now with what's left over in his second hire. I'm hoping Hart is more competent at hiring coaches because after 2013 he'll have to. He may even do it after 2012 if we don't win 9 games.
WaltGoVols writes:
"Fact - Fulmer stopped recruiting 5 years before he was fired."
Then how did he get the Vols into the SECCG in 2004 and 2007?
How did Kiffin beat UGA and USCe with Fulmer's players?
That is, um, not very critical thinking on your part.
Walt
UT '81
WaltGoVols writes:
The sole culprit in all this is Mike Hamilton.
Walt
UT '81
ETfromBirth writes:
What was his record with the Raiders anyway. And what caused them to warn TN that he would destroy their program the way he destroyed the Raiders?
Lame story about Lame Chiffon. By the by did Lame ever actually play ball at college or pro level? He was on the team at SC when in college but did he actually play?
orangeman1 writes:
If Fulmer stopped recruiting 5 years before then how did he have a top 10 recruiting class ready to sign when he was fired? Also, if Kiffin is better than Dooley then how did he lose 6 games with so much more talent and seniority. Also playing an easier schedule. Also dont leave out credit for all the other asst coaches that were hired on at other schools like Garner and Taylor. They deserve credit too. Of course, dont give any credit to the man that brought it all together in your post-Fulmer.
WaltGoVols writes:
"The team had dropped off talent wise before Lane came in,'' Robinson said. "Pete Carroll's last two years, he didn't recruit as well, so the team is almost devoid of juniors and seniors of the caliber you would like to have.
"Lane is re-tooling the team,and he's been quiet and very mature in the way he has gone about things,'' he said. "In a year or so, USC will be in the thick of the BCS stuff, and all in all, you'd have to give him a high 'A.' ''
Who does that not remind you of? Here's a hint: he has the same initial as Dare Devil.
Walt
UT '81
orangeman1 writes:
NAW, Witch DR dont HATE Fulmer. Just likes to talk bad about him and criticize everything about him and his family. I truly feel bad for people like you that only focus on the negatives of the greatest coach at UT in most our lifetimes. No excuse for Fulmer though. I'm just glad the ones that thought Fulmer was so bad have at least lowered their expectations for UT/Dooley finally. At least some people are starting to realize how tough it was to contend for a championship at UT on a regular basis like Fulmer did. Some are just slower than others. Like ones that refer to themselves at the beginning of every sentence.
westknoxrepub writes:
In 2007 we got there despite losing to Florida 59-20 and Alabama 41-17 because everybody else couldn't take care of business. In other words, well fell backwards into the championship game, we didn't earn it then promptly turned around and turned in a five win season the next year.
The bottom line is Fulmer's time had come and gone. He hadn't won an SEC Title in 9 years, heck he only won two in his career. Two conference championships in 15 years isn't that great. We shouldn't have hired Kiffen, but hindsight is 20/20 and now we're stuck with Dooley for at least another year. Fulmer refused to adapt to change, and watched Rome burn as everyone else around him got better while we remained stagnant (and got worse because he had the brilliant idea to promote Randy Sanders to OC) and finished with two losing seasons in his last four years.
You're equating firing Fulmer with the situation we're in when Fulmer is the root cause, and the real problems we're having are the result of poor hires. If we hire Brian Kelly instead of Lane Kiffen are we in the same situation? Probably not.
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