John Adams: Vols' offense can't keep up with Vanderbilt's

John Adams

In case you were wondering, this isn't the worst offensive stretch of Tennessee football.

In the last four games, UT's incredibly shrinking offense has totaled 28 points, which matches four weeks worth of production for the 1980 team.

But that's two points more than what the Vols managed through four games in 1963 and a touchdown and extra point more than the 1959 team scored in its last four games.

See. It could be worse.

You're excused for not finding consolation in that, especially since you can't turn on your television on a Saturday without seeing either Oklahoma State or Oklahoma celebrating a touchdown. UT's offensive woes are magnified by what's going on almost everywhere outside the SEC.

Houston is averaging more points per game than UT has scored in five SEC games. Ten teams are averaging 40 or more points. Forty-nine are averaging 30 or more.

Tennessee is averaging 22.4.

That tells you as much about the SEC as it does the Vols. Eight conference teams rank 38th or higher in points allowed per game.

Maybe that's why one reader suggested the Vols should move to the Big East.

Actually, they still have plenty in common with the rest of the SEC East. Kentucky's offense is worse than UT's. Florida had minus-19 yards rushing against Georgia on Saturday. South Carolina has made the top 10 despite scoring 14 points or fewer in three of its last four games.

Compared to the rest of the division, Georgia qualifies as an offensive juggernaut. It's averaging only 3.9 yards per rush.

Another comparison is more unsettling for UT fans. They know what the Vols are up against: two coaching changes in the last three years, considerable player attrition, a season-ending injury to star wide receiver Justin Hunter, and a thumb injury to passing whiz Tyler Bray, who has missed the last three games. But what about Vanderbilt?

The Commodores are on their third coach in three seasons. They changed quarterbacks in the middle of the season. And they have the built-in disadvantage of being Vanderbilt.

Yet in the last few weeks, first-year coach James Franklin has developed an offense that's better than UT's. In fact, it's actually fun to watch now that Jordan Rodgers has unseated Larry Smith as the starting quarterback.

Rodgers hasn't completed 50 percent of his passes. He has thrown more interceptions than he has touchdown passes. But Vanderbilt scored 28 points on both Georgia and Arkansas.

The Commodores are averaging more than twice as many yards rushing per game as UT. Zac Stacy, their leading rusher, is averaging 7.3 yards per carry; Tauren Poole, UT's leading rusher, is averaging 3.7.

The Vanderbilt comparison will become more significant in a few weeks when the teams meet at Neyland Stadium. The Vols can play their worst and still beat Middle Tennessee State handily this Saturday in Neyland Stadium. There's nothing to suggest they're capable of beating Arkansas the following week.

So the Vanderbilt game could become the biggest of the season, or at least what's left of the season. Losing it could leave the Vols with a losing record.

And right now, they don't have enough offense to win it.

John Adams is a senior columnist. He may be reached at 865-342-6284 or adamsj@knoxnews.com. Follow him at http://twitter.com/johnadamskns.

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Comments » 50

bspurlingcac#225603 writes:

We will beat Vandy!

Pullingguard writes:

They might beat Vandy if there are changes and improvments made or if Tyler is back and ready to play verses Vandy... Otherwise, if none of above happens then Vandy will kick the Vols down farther into the pit of being terible.

Dobervol writes:

Well, John, as you know (I hope), we don't have to play them "now," do we? Bray comes back, it's a whole different ballgame.

flatrock writes:

John- James (Kiffin) Franklin inherited a defense that has at least 5 seniors who most believe will be playing in the NFL this time next year, giving the 'Dore offense more chances and better field position. You seem to be a numbers guy, so please explain how you would overcome the huge strength and depth disadvantages that the following numbers reveal.
Here are the total years of SEC experience (and weight room time) that the SEC teams' top 22 had under their belts prior to this season:

1.) Alabama-60 years (108 years in their top 44);
2.) Mississippi State-51 years;
3.) LSU- 48 years (89 years in their top 44);
4.) South Carolina- 46 years;
5.) Arkansas- 46 years (81 years in their top 44);
6.) Vanderbilt- 45 years;
7.) Ole Miss- 41 years;
8.) Georgia 41 years;
9.) Kentucky 41 years;
10.) Auburn 40 years;
11.) Florida 34 years;
12.) Tennessee 26 years (only 40 years in their top 44)...that means that UT's top 44 players had less experience (and weight room time) than the TOP 22 of 9 other SEC teams...YIKES!

rabidvol1998 writes:

in response to MOUNTAINofOKEMO:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

There are two requirements to being a True Vol fan;

1. Have enough Orange to have to do a full load of orange when the laundry is done.
2. Refer to the Vols as "we" regardless of winning or losing

We will beat the Dores, there is no other conclusion a Vol fan can reach.

rabidvol1998 writes:

in response to flatrock:

John- James (Kiffin) Franklin inherited a defense that has at least 5 seniors who most believe will be playing in the NFL this time next year, giving the 'Dore offense more chances and better field position. You seem to be a numbers guy, so please explain how you would overcome the huge strength and depth disadvantages that the following numbers reveal.
Here are the total years of SEC experience (and weight room time) that the SEC teams' top 22 had under their belts prior to this season:

1.) Alabama-60 years (108 years in their top 44);
2.) Mississippi State-51 years;
3.) LSU- 48 years (89 years in their top 44);
4.) South Carolina- 46 years;
5.) Arkansas- 46 years (81 years in their top 44);
6.) Vanderbilt- 45 years;
7.) Ole Miss- 41 years;
8.) Georgia 41 years;
9.) Kentucky 41 years;
10.) Auburn 40 years;
11.) Florida 34 years;
12.) Tennessee 26 years (only 40 years in their top 44)...that means that UT's top 44 players had less experience (and weight room time) than the TOP 22 of 9 other SEC teams...YIKES!

Interesting data. We've got to grow up quickly some how though. We HAVE TO go to a bowl game or I'm afraid recruiting gets too hard and we lose any momentum we have.

SummittsCourt writes:

in response to flatrock:

John- James (Kiffin) Franklin inherited a defense that has at least 5 seniors who most believe will be playing in the NFL this time next year, giving the 'Dore offense more chances and better field position. You seem to be a numbers guy, so please explain how you would overcome the huge strength and depth disadvantages that the following numbers reveal.
Here are the total years of SEC experience (and weight room time) that the SEC teams' top 22 had under their belts prior to this season:

1.) Alabama-60 years (108 years in their top 44);
2.) Mississippi State-51 years;
3.) LSU- 48 years (89 years in their top 44);
4.) South Carolina- 46 years;
5.) Arkansas- 46 years (81 years in their top 44);
6.) Vanderbilt- 45 years;
7.) Ole Miss- 41 years;
8.) Georgia 41 years;
9.) Kentucky 41 years;
10.) Auburn 40 years;
11.) Florida 34 years;
12.) Tennessee 26 years (only 40 years in their top 44)...that means that UT's top 44 players had less experience (and weight room time) than the TOP 22 of 9 other SEC teams...YIKES!

That speaks volumns! Too bad more "fans" can't grasp the incredible hole the Vols are trying to play out of.

SummittsCourt writes:

in response to MOUNTAINofOKEMO:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

"WE" is the appropriate word because "WE" Vols fans are a part of the team whether you like it or not. "WE" Vols fans live and breathe orange and white so forgive us for feeling like "WE" are a part of this team. Afterall, it is "WE" who buy the game tickets, merchandise and everything else Tennessee Orange.

RemembertheAlamo writes:

in response to MOUNTAINofOKEMO:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Only Non-UT Fans say "They"! Period! We are the VOLS! IT IS GREAT TO BE A TENNESSEE VOL!...."WE" will beat Vandy! So since you say "THEY" when talking about the VOLS, then you must be a Gator or Commode Door! I heard the say thing last year that WE did not have a chance of beating Vandy. What did WE do with Vandy last year. When I say THEY I am talking about the other team, never ever refer to the VOLS as THEY, whether I am on the team or not. So if you are not a Tennessee VOL FAN, please leave! I don't care if I am 12 or 64, it is still "WE"! I don't care if my koolaide is good or bad, it is still "WE"

FearTheVols1252 writes:

Fine Adams... now take Rogers and Stacy out of the equation (their two key offensive players) and see where they stand.

Thank you.

I rest my case.

Losing Hunter hurt us bad. Losing Bray essentially ended our season. If you don't believe me, just ask one of the Florida trolls and I'm sure they will concur the impact of losing your starting QB.

keithgibson writes:

in response to flatrock:

John- James (Kiffin) Franklin inherited a defense that has at least 5 seniors who most believe will be playing in the NFL this time next year, giving the 'Dore offense more chances and better field position. You seem to be a numbers guy, so please explain how you would overcome the huge strength and depth disadvantages that the following numbers reveal.
Here are the total years of SEC experience (and weight room time) that the SEC teams' top 22 had under their belts prior to this season:

1.) Alabama-60 years (108 years in their top 44);
2.) Mississippi State-51 years;
3.) LSU- 48 years (89 years in their top 44);
4.) South Carolina- 46 years;
5.) Arkansas- 46 years (81 years in their top 44);
6.) Vanderbilt- 45 years;
7.) Ole Miss- 41 years;
8.) Georgia 41 years;
9.) Kentucky 41 years;
10.) Auburn 40 years;
11.) Florida 34 years;
12.) Tennessee 26 years (only 40 years in their top 44)...that means that UT's top 44 players had less experience (and weight room time) than the TOP 22 of 9 other SEC teams...YIKES!

Interesting data, but answer me this. If this is our main problem, why can we hang with teams in the first half? Then in the second half we get smoked. I know lack of depth, correct? Well then, explain to me how we can play hard for 30 minutes then take a twenty minute rest, sip on a sports drink, relax and catch our breath, then go and get the ball crammed down our throats the whole third quarter? Lack of dept would not show up in the third quarter, it shows up in the fourth quarter. Go check the stats, Tennessee has given up 68 third quarter points this year! Far more than any other quarter on the season! I just want someone to explain this to me please.

maciste54 writes:

I'm very concerned that the Vols won't be able to beat Vandy this year. Losing to Ky. or Vandy in any year is unacceptable to me and I hope to other Vol fans. I also am concerned that when Bray comes back he won't be able to throw the ball effectively with a sore thumb. We'll see on the last one but right now Vandy is a scary prospect. Not to say the Vols can't get it done. I've calmed down a little after Saturdays debacle but I can say I've never been so disappointed in a Tenn. team even with the injuries. The myriad of mistakes is concerning when they occur this far into the season and are uncontested mistakes. Rogers with his drop let the entire team down Sat. and I can't understand why it seems so impossible to develop some semblance of a running game. It seems to me that what few players Tenn. has that are skill players with speed seldom get a touch. I realize they need the QB to get them the ball but they need the plays called for them as well. In a decent year Tenn. beats that SC team by 3 touchdowns. Hopefully we will see some true improvement next year but can we really expect a bunch of incoming freshmen to make that much difference ? I was a big Fulmer fan and hated to see him go but put most of the blame on him and the rest on Kiffin. Those two combined have absolutely destroyed Tenn. football. Fulmer unintentionally and Kiffin with his selfishness and lack of professionalism. I hope I'm not looking back 2 or 3 years from now and saying Dooley was no better. I think he will succeed given time but there needs to be a step forward without taking 5 back soon. I'm looking forward to basketball even though I know the record will probably be ugly. I believe Martin is the man for the job but we gotta give him time as well.

nomietn#281095 writes:

Three wishes: (1) no more Tennessee football on tv until we get it together-probably 2013 or later (2) beat MTSU-baby steps, and (3) Dave Hart has a good list of head football coach prospects.

msinva writes:

in response to flatrock:

John- James (Kiffin) Franklin inherited a defense that has at least 5 seniors who most believe will be playing in the NFL this time next year, giving the 'Dore offense more chances and better field position. You seem to be a numbers guy, so please explain how you would overcome the huge strength and depth disadvantages that the following numbers reveal.
Here are the total years of SEC experience (and weight room time) that the SEC teams' top 22 had under their belts prior to this season:

1.) Alabama-60 years (108 years in their top 44);
2.) Mississippi State-51 years;
3.) LSU- 48 years (89 years in their top 44);
4.) South Carolina- 46 years;
5.) Arkansas- 46 years (81 years in their top 44);
6.) Vanderbilt- 45 years;
7.) Ole Miss- 41 years;
8.) Georgia 41 years;
9.) Kentucky 41 years;
10.) Auburn 40 years;
11.) Florida 34 years;
12.) Tennessee 26 years (only 40 years in their top 44)...that means that UT's top 44 players had less experience (and weight room time) than the TOP 22 of 9 other SEC teams...YIKES!

Flatrock,

Thank you for doing what I have wanted to know but have been too busy/lazy to do myself. You need to be working for the KNS as a reporter. Did you do this on your own or do you have a source?

IMO this says it all. I'm dumbfounded that this is the case. Experience isn't everything, but it's very big. The other is talent level. I'm hopeful that this is what will allow TN to beat both Vandy and KY.

I'm putting these data in my side drawer to refresh the critics memories in a few years. I'm not saying CDD is the next Saban, but I like the small things I'm seeing. When taking over a tough job the first thing you do is go after the easy-to-solve issues and he has

1. Essentially eliminated the off the field problems
2. Completely turned around the kicking game. Room for improvement...sure, but how many fumbled kicks have you seen this year? Few, if any and also very few long returns by the opposing team

3. Defensive game plan is strong. We are planning to stop the other teams strength (e.g. Richardson and Jeffrey in the last two games). I would rather make AL and SC QBs beat me, than hand it to their best players. In time the defense will have experience to not have to choose one or the other.

This coaching staff can not change these problems overnight. They can only change personnel 25 +/- at a time. I give CDD a pass on his year 0 comments, as he did not get to recruit players for his system. Thus the coaches are having to adjust things they would prefer to do around personnel at this time. Next year I will be a more harsh critic, but to do so now is short-sighted. The following year there will be no excuses for not competing at a high level.

johnlg00 writes:

in response to MOUNTAINofOKEMO:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

I will give you credit for being about one-for-10 or so on more or less cogent comments at various times, but sometimes you try so hard to sound smart and mature at the expense of loyal fans that you drift completely off into irrelevancy. No fan is so deluded as to believe that they are actually ON their team in the playing sense, but a sense of identification with the team is what being a fan IS. Everybody knows what is meant here. As a great writer once said, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." It is just simpler and completely understandable in this kind of writing, especially, to use terms such as "we" or "us" in referring to a fan's favored team. This is just another example of a person with a superiority complex using a cheap shot trying to make himself look so much better than a mere fan. You are smart enough to do better; too bad you are not decent enough to do so.

RomanRoomRedux (Inactive) writes:

What fools. James Franklin took over a 2-10 squad and is in his first year. Derek Dooley inherited a 7-5 team that was 4-4 in the SEC. Plus, Zach Stacy is a backup (woops, there goes the we lost our best player excuse).

James Franklin was a coordinator at a major college, and got his jobs on his own. He wasn't Daddy's employment project.

Franklin will bash Dooley and we'll be stting home during the holidays. Now, let's hear some more nonsense, the same as how Dooley was going to beat Florida, Georgia, LSU, and S.C..

You Dooley roaches will be out from under your rocks until after Arkansas. Hopefully, Vandy will keep you there for good. Maybe then we can go out and get a man that can actually coach.

johnlg00 writes:

in response to rabidvol1998:

Interesting data. We've got to grow up quickly some how though. We HAVE TO go to a bowl game or I'm afraid recruiting gets too hard and we lose any momentum we have.

There is another way to look at all this inexperience on UT's team. It means that there is still room for good recruits to get immediate playing time. Incoming freshmen won't be at such a disadvantage compared to the rest of the squad. The natural life cycle of a program, as someone else pointed out on an earlier thread, shows that when a team is building, there is usually LOTS of room for guys to come in and play right away.

As the team gets better, or at least more experienced, a freshman starts out lower on the depth chart unless he can fill a position of real need. As the team starts winning with more experienced players, backed by top-quality lower-classmen, there is less incentive for really good recruits to go to the higher-ranked teams. They go elsewhere where they can play immediately and thus begin the rebuilding process somewhere else.

If the Vols had indeed beaten a couple of these high-ranked teams with all their young players, top-quality recruits might well look at the depth chart and conclude that they won't get a good chance to play for a couple of years. One may argue that the Vols' ineptitude shows that the coaching is not up to par and may discourage players from coming to UT even if they can play right away. On the other hand, many of their problems may well be fixable with any combination of better health, more talent, more experience, and slightly better numbers on the squad. In that case, it is possible that recruits might think they can make a real difference and recruiting momentum might continue to build even if the record isn't improving. That's my story and I'm sticking to it(;-P)!

VolMoment writes:

in response to keithgibson:

Interesting data, but answer me this. If this is our main problem, why can we hang with teams in the first half? Then in the second half we get smoked. I know lack of depth, correct? Well then, explain to me how we can play hard for 30 minutes then take a twenty minute rest, sip on a sports drink, relax and catch our breath, then go and get the ball crammed down our throats the whole third quarter? Lack of dept would not show up in the third quarter, it shows up in the fourth quarter. Go check the stats, Tennessee has given up 68 third quarter points this year! Far more than any other quarter on the season! I just want someone to explain this to me please.

Dumbie. That is the facts about Flatrock's post. In wrestling both are nearly equal at the start but as time passes in the match the one stronger(usually the older one)wears the other down. of course I can tell you never wrestled or probably played sports. But can't you read and understand the subject matter or to quick to add a comment.
His post is right on the problem and the loss of Bray and Hunter is too much to handle. Look at the Colts without Manning. Lets all support the Vols and the hurt players.

johnlg00 writes:

in response to keithgibson:

Interesting data, but answer me this. If this is our main problem, why can we hang with teams in the first half? Then in the second half we get smoked. I know lack of depth, correct? Well then, explain to me how we can play hard for 30 minutes then take a twenty minute rest, sip on a sports drink, relax and catch our breath, then go and get the ball crammed down our throats the whole third quarter? Lack of dept would not show up in the third quarter, it shows up in the fourth quarter. Go check the stats, Tennessee has given up 68 third quarter points this year! Far more than any other quarter on the season! I just want someone to explain this to me please.

As I suggested on other occasions, the answer may be as simple as the fact that young players play on sheer emotion more than more-experienced ones do. In the first half, the emotions and the resulting adrenaline cause them to play perhaps a bit better than they might otherwise. Then by half-time, the emotions are spent, the energy level drops, and the players can't motivate themselves to compete at the same level.

This is where I blame the coaches. This is what Dooley is talking about when he mentions a lack of "competitive maturity". Well, a young team doesn't yet know how to access that ability to compete with cold blood, if you will. Therefore, it is up to the staff to manufacture that ability by giving the team something to look forward to in the second half.

It appears that the coaches tell the players, when they are still relatively close at half-time, that they have had some success with some things, so all they have to do is continue to do those things and they will be fine. Of course, the opposition has analyzed what they have been doing and devised counters to those things. The Vols then go out in the second half, run all the same stuff from the first half, but now it is not working because the opponents know what to expect and how to stop it. The Vols don't have success, so they lose heart and get blown out.

What I suggest is that the coaches say, "OK, we've shown them some tendencies, but this half we are going to go against those tendencies. Where we have been running dive plays into the middle, we are now going to fake the dive and run counters, sweeps, and screens. We've been running hitch patterns at the sticks; now we are going to run hitch-and-go patterns. Defensively, we have been playing coverage; now we are going to run blitzes. We have set them up, so now we are going to knock them out! Are you with me? Then let's go!" In other words, they not only have to come up with some variety in the second half to engage the team mentally, they must work extra hard to rekindle some of the emotion they had earlier.

I think I get the attitude that the coaches are trying to build of competing hard and paying attention to detail on every play. But this is a hard lesson for young players to learn, so the key is to engage them ON THEIR LEVEL and use their natural tendencies to compete emotionally to draw them toward the mind-set you want them to have when they are more mature.

Voluvr writes:

John,
It is our defensive that needs to keep up with their offense! C'mon John.

Tau_of_Tennessee writes:

in response to VolMoment:

Dumbie. That is the facts about Flatrock's post. In wrestling both are nearly equal at the start but as time passes in the match the one stronger(usually the older one)wears the other down. of course I can tell you never wrestled or probably played sports. But can't you read and understand the subject matter or to quick to add a comment.
His post is right on the problem and the loss of Bray and Hunter is too much to handle. Look at the Colts without Manning. Lets all support the Vols and the hurt players.

I agree with you VolMoment. Once you push your body physically well into the red zone, it does not recover its top end for a day or two. Twenty minutes helps but that very top end does not return in that time. Youth and lack of depth push our guys too far/long into the red zone early.

johnlg00 writes:

in response to RomanRoomRedux:

What fools. James Franklin took over a 2-10 squad and is in his first year. Derek Dooley inherited a 7-5 team that was 4-4 in the SEC. Plus, Zach Stacy is a backup (woops, there goes the we lost our best player excuse).

James Franklin was a coordinator at a major college, and got his jobs on his own. He wasn't Daddy's employment project.

Franklin will bash Dooley and we'll be stting home during the holidays. Now, let's hear some more nonsense, the same as how Dooley was going to beat Florida, Georgia, LSU, and S.C..

You Dooley roaches will be out from under your rocks until after Arkansas. Hopefully, Vandy will keep you there for good. Maybe then we can go out and get a man that can actually coach.

I get so tired of having to repeat this, but firing Dooley at the end of this season will not fix the ultimate problem of rebuilding a respectable program. Anybody familiar with UT's current situation knows that there just IS no one- or two-year fix to this program. No one clearly better-suited than Dooley to fix the Vols would take the job for any amount of money if he didn't think he would have a reasonable amount of time to do it.

Actually, if someone WOULD take the job under such circumstances, the chances of making a quick turnaround could be better because Dooley HAS recruited and retained some pretty good players and made strides toward remedying the numbers shortage. BUT the perception of a panicky fan base and administration would probably prevent a smart coach with a proven record of success from taking the job in the first place.

RussellP (Inactive) writes:

We lost to Vandy in 2005 at home and you woulda thought the world came to an end, listening to some fans. It didn't come to an end, but where has Tennessee football been since that loss? Was the 2005 lass to Vandy a wake-up call that was heeded, or ignored?

I concur with the comment posted above that many of the problems we are seeing are made more mysterious by the excellent first half ballgames the Vols have played against some really good teams. What's up with that?

BigBoyBall writes:

in response to RomanRoomRedux:

What fools. James Franklin took over a 2-10 squad and is in his first year. Derek Dooley inherited a 7-5 team that was 4-4 in the SEC. Plus, Zach Stacy is a backup (woops, there goes the we lost our best player excuse).

James Franklin was a coordinator at a major college, and got his jobs on his own. He wasn't Daddy's employment project.

Franklin will bash Dooley and we'll be stting home during the holidays. Now, let's hear some more nonsense, the same as how Dooley was going to beat Florida, Georgia, LSU, and S.C..

You Dooley roaches will be out from under your rocks until after Arkansas. Hopefully, Vandy will keep you there for good. Maybe then we can go out and get a man that can actually coach.

One Question. Do you consider yourself a Vol fan?

johnlg00 writes:

Just to clarify: I was not suggesting above that the coaches just bring up those changes in strategy at half-time without building the foundation in practice. The players have to have enough repetition to give them confidence that those half-time changes have some chance of working. Introducing such plays--and more importantly, that way of thinking--will give them a bit more bounce in practice also. By now, the team ought to pretty much know how to execute the majority of plays, even if they don't do it all the time in games, so it shouldn't be all THAT hard to put in the variations.

But, again, the key is to engage the players as PARTNERS in what the team is trying to do rather than berating their short-comings in living up to some ultimate ideal. I don't know that this is the case, but one sort of gets the feeling that the staff is operating right now more on the basis of, "The beatings will continue until morale improves." That has a certain kind of old-school appeal, but MAY not be the best way to deal with young players today.

wallingdad writes:

in response to johnlg00:

I get so tired of having to repeat this, but firing Dooley at the end of this season will not fix the ultimate problem of rebuilding a respectable program. Anybody familiar with UT's current situation knows that there just IS no one- or two-year fix to this program. No one clearly better-suited than Dooley to fix the Vols would take the job for any amount of money if he didn't think he would have a reasonable amount of time to do it.

Actually, if someone WOULD take the job under such circumstances, the chances of making a quick turnaround could be better because Dooley HAS recruited and retained some pretty good players and made strides toward remedying the numbers shortage. BUT the perception of a panicky fan base and administration would probably prevent a smart coach with a proven record of success from taking the job in the first place.

i understand your logic but keeping Dooley just postpones the inevitable. he will be replaced because he cannot coach. good coaches win a few games they are not supposed to win and win all the games they are supposed to win. Dooley has won no game that he is an underdog. meaning he cannot coach up mediocre players. if he cannot coach mediocre players what evidence is there that he can coach good players and make them better?

jobrando#216494 writes:

in response to bspurlingcac#225603:

We will beat Vandy!

Lets hope it's dooley's first win over a higher rated opponent

jobrando#216494 writes:

in response to johnlg00:

I get so tired of having to repeat this, but firing Dooley at the end of this season will not fix the ultimate problem of rebuilding a respectable program. Anybody familiar with UT's current situation knows that there just IS no one- or two-year fix to this program. No one clearly better-suited than Dooley to fix the Vols would take the job for any amount of money if he didn't think he would have a reasonable amount of time to do it.

Actually, if someone WOULD take the job under such circumstances, the chances of making a quick turnaround could be better because Dooley HAS recruited and retained some pretty good players and made strides toward remedying the numbers shortage. BUT the perception of a panicky fan base and administration would probably prevent a smart coach with a proven record of success from taking the job in the first place.

Your exactly right. Patience is needed. These folks without it need to support another team until the 2015 season. I dont see beating Vandy this year with a wounded Tyler and no senior leadership. Maybe next year we will move to the middle of the SEC pack. Then each year getting better until 2015 when we win the SEC east.

jobrando#216494 writes:

Vandy has a offense to get more with less. Maybe Tennessee should change. Just dont have it for a pro style. If any one had any brains besides Fulmer we would have Boyd running a spread and not in this mess.

TommyJack writes:

You put an inept offense like ours on the field, you gotta expect the criticism.

wallingdad writes:

in response to jobrando#216494:

Lets hope it's dooley's first win over a higher rated opponent

good grief. that is right...has it come to this that we will be an underdog to Vandy and Dooley's first signature win will be against the Commodore's? Good grief how far have we really fallen???....chest bumping and high fiving over beating vandy? wow....

jhayes0926#638474 writes:

You may also read this in another thread, but everyone should remain calm. If you look at the 4 losses WE have, 3 of the teams are top 10, Georgia probably will be in top 10 soon. Granted, I think we should have kept Worley red, but we can beat Vandy because hopefully he will have gained enough valuable experience by then to play well. Vandy is not prepared emotionally to play strong against UT, they get psyched out when playing big brother. We lose to Ark, and win the others. Acceptable 6-6, probably go to Liberty Bowl.

wallingdad writes:

in response to jhayes0926#638474:

You may also read this in another thread, but everyone should remain calm. If you look at the 4 losses WE have, 3 of the teams are top 10, Georgia probably will be in top 10 soon. Granted, I think we should have kept Worley red, but we can beat Vandy because hopefully he will have gained enough valuable experience by then to play well. Vandy is not prepared emotionally to play strong against UT, they get psyched out when playing big brother. We lose to Ark, and win the others. Acceptable 6-6, probably go to Liberty Bowl.

agree with all the comments except acceptable 6-6. to me 6-6 is not an acceptable record. if we start accepting that then we are truly doomed to mediocrity.

VOLliven2it writes:

ONE MORE TIME, would you insane people stop pretending we will be getting a new head coach before at least 2013 and especially get off the planet of our new AD having a list of potential head coaches? We have Derek Dooley for at least a couple of more years. I defy Hart or anyone to bring in a so called big name coach and have him automatically get us out of the rut we knew was coming when the Twinky Soft Cakes headed west(thank God he did). It is so tiring to see the same old rhetoric which does not accept 1)how far we have fallen, 2)how long it takes to climb back up. Either we are behind the team or not. Don't pretend you are when you are unrealistically thinking they'll be better over night. It is not happening with Dooley or with that illusive list of potential head coaches some of you want Hart to be toting. Get a life, get with reality and let's move on for crying out loud!

snuffysmiff writes:

Posted this on another thread but it fits this one too.
If Vandy continues to compete like they have the past few games, and UT continues to screw up, the Vols are in danger of getting a real "whoopin'", the likes we haven't seen in modern times, from the Commodores and it pains me to say that. The only thing the VOLS might have going for them in this game is Vandy doesn't throw the ball well. If UT can slow the run game down they might have a chance.

asleep#212036 writes:

in response to rabidvol1998:

Interesting data. We've got to grow up quickly some how though. We HAVE TO go to a bowl game or I'm afraid recruiting gets too hard and we lose any momentum we have.

That would be true except that Bray was hurt. Whether or not that would have changed our record is debatable but what is not debatable is the spin that Dooley and company will put on that injury. They will tell recruits that with Bray and Hunter healthy we not only go to a bowl game but likely a NYD game after beating Georgia and South Carolina to go 8-4. I don't necessarily believe that but it is certainly plausible and absolutely sellable to a recruit. Further, being the youngest team in Division 1 football it is easy to sell the idea of nowhere to go but up. However, trying to sell our program versus those in Florida, Georgia, or Alabama will be tough, especially if our record this year is worse than last. We'll see. Saban said Dooley is a great recruiter - we're all about to find out. Go Vols!!!

vol_fan8 writes:

if there wasn't a joke of sports dept at the sentinel here's what they would write: http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2011/10/3...

Adams: you're a joke and should be fired.

Tau_of_Tennessee writes:

in response to VOLliven2it:

ONE MORE TIME, would you insane people stop pretending we will be getting a new head coach before at least 2013 and especially get off the planet of our new AD having a list of potential head coaches? We have Derek Dooley for at least a couple of more years. I defy Hart or anyone to bring in a so called big name coach and have him automatically get us out of the rut we knew was coming when the Twinky Soft Cakes headed west(thank God he did). It is so tiring to see the same old rhetoric which does not accept 1)how far we have fallen, 2)how long it takes to climb back up. Either we are behind the team or not. Don't pretend you are when you are unrealistically thinking they'll be better over night. It is not happening with Dooley or with that illusive list of potential head coaches some of you want Hart to be toting. Get a life, get with reality and let's move on for crying out loud!

I could not agree more VOLliven2it. I actually thought we were ahead of schedule with Bray and Hunter in the lineup. If they were in against SC we would have had an excellant chance of winning last Saturday.

DwayneElizondoMountainDewHerbertCamacho writes:

in response to MOUNTAINofOKEMO:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

"...it would be 'they'"

Wrong...it is always "US" and "WE" because while WE may disagree WE are still the Vol nation.

I violently disagree with those who say give Dooley 5 years. But I don't ever question their loyalty as a fan to this team. I think that they are delusional and they think that I am a punk that expects instant gratification, but in the end what WE want is what's best for the Vols.

The team is why WE go to Neyland stadium on Saturdays, but the 100,00+ fans make it electric. WE go to connect with our fellow Tennessee brothers and sisters. Some of us are lucky and we get to visit the University that holds so many wonderful memories. Some never went to UT, but the Vols are the team that they love. WE are all Vols and all UT.

Any student who is willing to sleep outside of the ticket office for Florida or Alabama student tickets (it's sad if this still doesn't happen) is a WE. Any fan who is willing to show up to Knoxville on the Friday night before the game just for the HOPE of finding an affordable ticket is a WE. Any fan who listens on a bad radio connection on a Saturday night because they live in the mountains and that's the only way they can enjoy the game is a WE.

WE are UT and WE are fans. WE are the Vol family. Families disagree, they sometimes shout and throw things, but, in the end, they are still family. That's something you learn living in the Appalachian mountains and it's a great lesson.

yankintenn#395643 writes:

I assume most of the people reading this have managed others at some point in their careers. Dooley is the kind of guy we all have had work for us or next to us. Nice guy that you want to succeed, but in your hearts you know ultimately it is not going to work. Face it-Tenn is not going to put up with getting clobbered by these teams and the empty seats that will follow. The school will not have the patience to work thru this, regardless of the sins of his predecessors.

Liberal_Vol writes:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

jomo11 writes:

You got to love those fans who say "We" who never attend a class at UTK, much less graduated from UTK

1Volunteer writes:

in response to vol_fan8:

if there wasn't a joke of sports dept at the sentinel here's what they would write: http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2011/10/3...

Adams: you're a joke and should be fired.

Thank you for posting that link. The writer gives excellent analysis of the situation. Everyone interested in UT football should read it.
Every true Volunteers fan will back Coach Derek Dooley.

GONAVY writes:

If the VU/UT game was in Nashville this year, I would give the nod to Vanderbilt. In Knoxville, it really gives the UT the edge. Either way, both teams I predict will be playing for their lives. UT will most likely be 4-6 by virtue of beating MTSU and losing to Arkansas. VU will be 5-5 by virtue of losing to UF and beating UK. That means all the marbles are on the table for UT. For VU, they'll have another game to hit the magic number of 6 (Wake Forest) should they lose to UT. If Bray is back, I have to question his effectiveness. Having a cast on and a stint inserted limits your ability to just walk out and throw accurate bullets in your first time back. But, just his presence should give UT a lift. If it's Worley or Simms, this plays to VU's advantage defensively. They have a stout defense. Secret: VU's passing game is improving each week under Rodgers who should've been the starter from day one. The receivers are responding to his throws as well...plus, Rodgers can run. Stacey, VU's RB is solid. Poole is not. Whoever can generate a ground game has the edge. There's a lot of football to be played before November 19. Right now, I give the Vols the edge as it is in Knoxville and their final home game. Should be a fun one to watch.

volfaninbuckeyeland writes:

in response to DwayneElizondoMountainDewHerbertCamacho:

"...it would be 'they'"

Wrong...it is always "US" and "WE" because while WE may disagree WE are still the Vol nation.

I violently disagree with those who say give Dooley 5 years. But I don't ever question their loyalty as a fan to this team. I think that they are delusional and they think that I am a punk that expects instant gratification, but in the end what WE want is what's best for the Vols.

The team is why WE go to Neyland stadium on Saturdays, but the 100,00+ fans make it electric. WE go to connect with our fellow Tennessee brothers and sisters. Some of us are lucky and we get to visit the University that holds so many wonderful memories. Some never went to UT, but the Vols are the team that they love. WE are all Vols and all UT.

Any student who is willing to sleep outside of the ticket office for Florida or Alabama student tickets (it's sad if this still doesn't happen) is a WE. Any fan who is willing to show up to Knoxville on the Friday night before the game just for the HOPE of finding an affordable ticket is a WE. Any fan who listens on a bad radio connection on a Saturday night because they live in the mountains and that's the only way they can enjoy the game is a WE.

WE are UT and WE are fans. WE are the Vol family. Families disagree, they sometimes shout and throw things, but, in the end, they are still family. That's something you learn living in the Appalachian mountains and it's a great lesson.

Enjoyed reading your post, Dwayne, and you can't spell Dwayne without WE. Great post.

manning1607 writes:

in response to flatrock:

John- James (Kiffin) Franklin inherited a defense that has at least 5 seniors who most believe will be playing in the NFL this time next year, giving the 'Dore offense more chances and better field position. You seem to be a numbers guy, so please explain how you would overcome the huge strength and depth disadvantages that the following numbers reveal.
Here are the total years of SEC experience (and weight room time) that the SEC teams' top 22 had under their belts prior to this season:

1.) Alabama-60 years (108 years in their top 44);
2.) Mississippi State-51 years;
3.) LSU- 48 years (89 years in their top 44);
4.) South Carolina- 46 years;
5.) Arkansas- 46 years (81 years in their top 44);
6.) Vanderbilt- 45 years;
7.) Ole Miss- 41 years;
8.) Georgia 41 years;
9.) Kentucky 41 years;
10.) Auburn 40 years;
11.) Florida 34 years;
12.) Tennessee 26 years (only 40 years in their top 44)...that means that UT's top 44 players had less experience (and weight room time) than the TOP 22 of 9 other SEC teams...YIKES!

interesting but i decided to look it up and we in fact have 34 years of prior experience in our top 22, so that actually puts us in line with florida at the bottom, but remember Vandy is Vandy they don't have near the talent that anybody else in the league has yet they are a lot better this year, I like dooley but its sad when we are more of a pushover than Vandy

JayTee writes:

If John Adams knew who would win a ball game based on his illogical facts he wouldn't be a half a**ed sports writer in Knoxville.

pcorange writes:

Anyone who believes UT will beat Vandy this year is nuts. The performance of our O-line has not and will not be there. UT is getting worse instead of better. I am very concerned about the future of Vol ball at this point. Yes, the players are young. No, they are not improving game by game like young players should. That may be a coaching problem.

chuckfromwoodbury writes:

in response to RomanRoomRedux:

What fools. James Franklin took over a 2-10 squad and is in his first year. Derek Dooley inherited a 7-5 team that was 4-4 in the SEC. Plus, Zach Stacy is a backup (woops, there goes the we lost our best player excuse).

James Franklin was a coordinator at a major college, and got his jobs on his own. He wasn't Daddy's employment project.

Franklin will bash Dooley and we'll be stting home during the holidays. Now, let's hear some more nonsense, the same as how Dooley was going to beat Florida, Georgia, LSU, and S.C..

You Dooley roaches will be out from under your rocks until after Arkansas. Hopefully, Vandy will keep you there for good. Maybe then we can go out and get a man that can actually coach.

Richmond Sr loved and was proud of Richmond Jr. You, Jeff, he merely tolerated. I really wish you hadn't missed that block on the fake punt. But then again you weren't very good.

texasvols writes:

in response to Pullingguard:

They might beat Vandy if there are changes and improvments made or if Tyler is back and ready to play verses Vandy... Otherwise, if none of above happens then Vandy will kick the Vols down farther into the pit of being terible.

Good post! You sir are exactly right, Tyler is a leader and if he comes back Darick will get chewed out by the QB for drops and will keep Rivera involed and maybe remind us De Anthony Arnett's production during the Florida game. Tyler cane help rest the defense also by making 3rd down throws that canbe caught.

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