Photo by Michael Patrick, copyright © 2011
MICHAEL PATRICK/NEWS SENTINEL Tennessee coaches Darin Hinshaw, left, and Derek Dooley talk to quarterback Tyler Bray during a timeout in the second half against Florida last Saturday in Gainesville, Fla.
When the scoreboard clock ran out on the 2008 college football season, Tennessee went into the rebuilding business. The Vols were not alone.
Tennessee finished 5-7, as did nine other BCS programs. Now that The 5-7 Club is in the third year of rebuilding, let's get out the tape measure and chart the progress.
One member of the club has won a national championship. Two others have played in BCS bowls.
Four have won a bowl game and one has won two. Two others at least played in a bowl game.
Three are ranked in the Top 25 this week.
Six got rid of coaches. One lost a coach to the NFL this year.
Three coaches are still in place. Bobby Petrino has Arkansas flying high. Ron Zook has renewed life at Illinois. Dennis Erickson could use a good year at Arizona State.
So, who has gained the most ground?
Auburn. End of story. The Tigers went from 5-7 to undefeated national champions in two years.
Since forcing out Tommy Tuberville and hiring Gene Chizik — Gene Yougottabekiddingme at the time — the Tigers were 24-6 going into the weekend, with two bowl wins, SEC and BCS titles and a Heisman Trophy to boot.
However, a case could be made that Stanford is currently on the most solid ground. Since the 2009 season kicked off, the Cardinal is 23-6 and has won an Orange Bowl.
While Auburn is rebuilding again, Stanford is No. 5 in this week's poll.
Arkansas' stock has soared since Petrino went 5-7 in 2008, his first year in Fayetteville. The Razorbacks have won a (Liberty) bowl and played in (and lost) the Sugar. They were 21-8 going into the Alabama game and ranked No. 14.
The third member of the 5-7 Club ranked this week is none other than The Zooker's Fighting Illini, at No. 24.
Zook is in his seventh year at Illinois. After sinking to 3-9 in 2009, the Illini are on the upswing with a Texas Bowl win over Baylor last year and a nice win over then-No. 22 Arizona last week.
Tennessee and Kansas State fall in line next, although their paths have differed.
The Vols chased off a legend, Phillip Fulmer, after 2008 just as K-State was bringing one out of retirement. Bill Snyder is 15-13 in has second tenure.
Tennessee has been saddled with the unique handicap of not one but two coaching changes, compounding the attrition and loss of momentum.
Lane Kiffin went 7-6; Derek Dooley is 8-8. Both lost a bowl game. It adds up to 15-14. Are the Vols in better shape than the Wildcats going forward — even conceding them Bryce Brown? I think most observers would buy UT stock over K-State.
Ditto for Louisville, 13-15 post-2008, and picked to finish last in the Big East this year.
Neither Virginia nor Colorado has showed marked improvement since 2008, at least not on the bottom line. Both were 9-18 going into the weekend.
Arizona State was 12-19 going into the USC game Saturday. The Sun Devils improved to 6-6 last year and were projected to finish second in the Pac-12 South this season. If they do, Erickson should keep his job.
The 2011 season is young and full of opportunity. Everyone, and certainly Tennessee, is hopeful of gaining ground.
But by late November there will be a new 5-7 Club. The Vols don't want to be in it.
Mike Strange may be reached at strangem@knoxnews.com.
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Comments » 45
brauhuff#295403 writes:
6-6 or 7-5 this year and hopefully we turn the corner next year. I am behind Derek Dooley but firing Fulmer without giving him 1 more year was stupid in hindsight and Lane Kiffin along with Phil Fulmer I will admit set us back like the last year of the Bill Battle days. Still yet I would have gave Fulmer 1 more year if nothing else out of loyalty.
CoverOrange writes:
Mike Hamilton backed himself into a corner when some reporter asked him what his measuring stick was for football coaches; x number SEC championships, y number of BCS bowls, no losing seasons. When 2008 was guaranteed not to be a winning season, no SECCG and no BCS bowl Hamilton either had to act or eat his words. I don't think we would be much better off today if Fulmer had stayed other than this would be his last year if he eclipsed Neyland's record.
sol_way writes:
could we beat Wyoming this year?
relentlesspursuitof98 writes:
Way beyond tired of hearing any mention of LK, but really want the record clarified. Kiffen had a 13 game season along with the bowl game, so with all his bravado and top-recruits, he went 7-7 during his brief tenure. Dooley's 6-6 season with the bowl game fiasco doesn't look so bad in comparison with what he had to overcome. Like the man has said; "it's a process", the Vols will get back, this is just the second year...
CarlChilders writes:
Sorry journalism. The writer failed to mention UT had back to back rebuilding years. I would much rather be in Dooley's shoes right now instead of Chizik's. It's looking like Auburn will have difficulty holding anyone under 40 points. Cincinnati (50 ppg avg) and Florida aren't looking too bad right now either. It's a long season. The Vols aren't done yet. How quickly some forget the most optimistic predictions for this year were 8-4 possibly 9-3, or maybe they're just struggling for a story. Go have a Pu Pu platter, Mr. Strange.
BodeaneVol writes:
Better keep your eyes on the Buffalo....They are only losing to UCONN by 14
BodeaneVol writes:
Before you could type a very stupid statement, Demps took it 82 yards to the house. KY wishes they had horses that fast.
BrassMonkey writes:
K-state beat Miami today. I bet Dooley and the 2011 version of the Vols could not accomplish that. Home or Away. Furthermore Dooley has never beaten any ranked team, ever. Chew on that.
FWBVol writes:
Did you really read this column Carl before jumping on the sorry journalism bandwagon jag.
Mike noted the fact that Tennessee's situation is a little different than the other schools.
"The Vols chased off a legend, Phillip Fulmer, after 2008 just as K-State was bringing one out of retirement. Bill Snyder is 15-13 in has second tenure.
Tennessee has been saddled with the unique handicap of not one but two coaching changes, compounding the attrition and loss of momentum."
pcorange writes:
As Vol fans, we have to realize that we have been down 20 or more scholarship players over our competition for the last couple of years. We have been, and still are, an extremely young and inexperienced team. I don't know whether Dooley will ever be able to get the job done, and neither do any of you. He learned from two legends: Vince Dooley and Nick Saban. So, he probably knows a lot more than any of you armchair quarterbacks give him credit for knowing. Frankly, we've got a long way to go if we want to finish over .500 this season. I don't see any guaranteed wins except Buffalo and Kentucky. However, the NCAA investigation is in the past and Dooley was known as a first rate recruiter at LSU. If he can recruit at Tennessee like he did at LSU, we'll get a chance in the next couple of years to find out for sure whether he can coach. Be patient. Our program was decimated a year and a half ago. It won't return to championship form over night.
Packer_Park_Orange (Inactive) writes:
People should be kissing sports writers feet for saying we're even middle of the pack in terms of rebuilding with this staff...Facts are we're at best middle of the pack every year with Dooley's recruiting...Seven in a row to a Florida team that everyone here says is no good and we're not likely to beat them for as long as CDD is at UT.
Don't know what you watched today but Dooley doesn't have one player that can start on Saban's defense at Bama and if Rainey crushed us imagine what Bama will do to Wilcox.
We need to get off this childish foolishness of excusing CDD's recruiting 2 and 3 star players then saying ...Oh he's doing it the right way with "character"...Nick Saban recruits 4 and 5 star players and can coach circles around Dooley...There will never be anymore rivalry in the Third Saturday in October as long as Saban's in Tuscaloosa and Dooley in Knoxville...You get what you pay for and you don't find SEC championship coaches at La. Tech...Especially if they come with a losing record.
BigBadVol writes:
Yet you are still here! What a sad existence.
flatrock writes:
"we"..."us"...you must be kidding, idiot!
RockyTopinAlabubba writes:
Yeah,if we would have gave him one more year. And actually took time to find a real coach(not kiffin). Maybe we could have kept Chavis and Trooper Taylor,and we would've been a whole lot better off than we are today. I know LSU gave up a lot of passing yards tonight,but Chavis is one hell of a defensive coordinator. Wished we still had him. Hopefully in time Wilcox will pull us together like we are suppose to be. I just hope it is sooner than later. GO VOLS!!!
OldNumber7 writes:
Agree with you. Tennessee manhandled a very good Cincinnati team, and made enough mistakes at UF to lose by well more than 10 (but they didn't). If these coaches can keep the miscues to a minimum, UT's very young team will do great things this season...Dooley season 1. A lot of football remains.
iowavol writes:
Just need to get the facts straight. Mike Hamilton lost the Wyoming game with his inept leadership - that being the firing of Fulmer two days before the Wyoming game. The season was headed toward a 6-6 finish and then a bowl game. More importantly, were the 15 extra days of practice and one more game we missed - again due to Hamilton.
Fulmer may have indeed needed to go. An outstanding recruiter who missed on his last two classes - five and four stars just not panning out - his real mistakes were hanging on to Randy Sanders too long and the Dave Clawson experiment. Remember, Fulmer had what most predicted was a top ten recruiting class coming in before Hamilton started this team on a bottom of the barrel spiral.
Selling our collective souls to the devil that is LK was Hamilton's final fatal blow to this program. It will take Coach Dooley 3 to 4 years to rebuild the mess Hamilton created. 7-5 this year will be a huge accomplishment.
ClassicVol writes:
I think this is a better team than most of you realize.
VolFanInTheBoro writes:
Little zz Did you post this on the KY site also or are the Vols the only team you are obsessed with
TheFuj writes:
Have to win the "should win" games this year plus 2 of the other 6 teams. Already lost to FL, so GA is almost a must win.
clvolfan writes:
UT should have never found themselves in a rebuilding state in 2008...CPF down!,And last time I checked,several of the afore mentioned schools are not competing in the SEC.
pupvol writes:
Agree!
CoverOrange writes:
I don't disagree that Hamilton's announcement influenced the Wyoming outcome to what should have been a 6-6 season. Historically, teams rally around a fired coach and have big games. Not that time.
I do disagree that Sanders or Clawson were mistakes. Three years after Cutcliffe left Sanders had us on the brink of another NC game. It was the lack of discipline and attention by Fulmer and Sanders that started the spiral. Clawson had a workable offense but players not bright enough to pick it up in one season. Again the lack of discipline.
I also surmise Hamilton's handling of Pearl led to the dysfunction of the team beginning after the Pittsburgh game.
volwr88 writes:
Shuda wuda coulda ! Firing of Fulmer along with Kiffin debacle to a already struggling program set us back years. We thought we cud go out and just buy a coach and turn the program around. Instead no one wanted to take over after the firing of a Top 10 Coach who had taken the program to new heights (yes he was struggling). Now we start practically from scratch with Dooley. Only time will tell (if we don't try and buy another coach). Dooley is good and will eventually turn the program around in the toughest conference in the nation.
ChrisUTvol writes:
Definitely.Good point.
snakeplissken writes:
Several SEC coaches took over programs that were as bad as Tennessee's was and turned them around by the second year. Two of those coaches won the National Championship in their second year, and one of them won it in his third year. There's three examples proving it can be done with good coaches.
ProfessionalHandicapper writes:
Kansas State beat Miami on the road as a 13 point underdog yesterday. Until Dooley can ever win as a dog I wouldn't say UT stock is higher than Kansas States. KState will have more wins again than UT. How can wins over Vandy,Kentucky, Memphis,Montana, Cinn be compared to the sucess of beating an up and coming Canes team on the road.
Go4Two writes:
Sometimes we over think everything. Alabama last 3 recruiting classes rank 1, 1, 5. Florida is 3, 11, 2. LSU 11, 2 ,6.
It'a about players yes some team may pop up but history shows us it's about play makers. Give Saban Kentucky's player and they still stink
snakeplissken writes:
Alabama's last 5 classes BEFORE hiring Saban were ranked 22nd, 18th, 16th, 19th and 45th. I agree you need players, but look how Saban turned the program around in his second year with these classes, and won a National Championship in his third year with a mixture of these players mixed in with his players.
Packer_Park_Orange (Inactive) writes:
You can bet on this...If Nick Saban had a team that couldn't punt block a 170lb man coming straigh up the middle and couln't execute a center snap...he wouldn't be going all over Tuscaloosa offering cute quips about his crimson pants...The 3rd Saturday in October will always be a breather for Saban as long as Dooley's in Knoxville.
snakeplissken writes:
Some interesting information about Propst who totally whiffed on blocking Rainey. Our staff turned down former Memphis high school player Jonathan Brown, who wanted to attend UT. Our staff told Brown they wanted Propst instead and told Brown to take a hike,
While Propst was watching Rainey blow by him, Brown was being named the Big Ten's Defensive Player of the week.
http://articles.chicagotribune...defe...
Packer_Park_Orange (Inactive) writes:
Sure Dooley will be given two more years...Sad but true.
As an aside...and because I know how you feel about the kicking game...Had breakfast this morning with Mark Fabish, UPenn's tight ends and special teams coach...Showed me a tape of a kid (a junior) at Baylor School in Chattanooga..The kid's from Brazil and the first time he kicked the ball in competition he kicked a 57 yarder and followed up with a kickoff between the uprights...Showed me this kid against McCallie School Friday night...He kicks a 52 yarder that would have been good from 70 and bangs every kickoff out of the endzone...Don't know if he wants to play football (Fabish tells me he's an all state soccer goalie)...But if he does and Dooley's not already all over him...He should be fired for that alone...Especially considering Parladay.
Voloyalty writes:
Fulmer lost to Wyoming.
SilasDogooder writes:
Good ole Fudge!
snakeplissken writes:
What you just posted bears out that coaching has a lot to do with it! Saban went 12-2 his second year mostly with players mostly from Shula's 19th and 45th ranked class! Even the national Championship season in Saban's third year had many young players from his recruiting classes as well as the upperclassmen from Shula's recruiting.
Look what Meyer, Chizik, Mullen, and Petrino did their second year after taking over programs that had fallen like UT's had. Coaching has a LOT to do with it. Then when you throw in better recruiting than Tennessee's, you'll see whay we'll never reach the top of the flagpole again!
DooleysOrangePants writes:
this may be the dumbest thing ive ever read on this board. how the h*** is miami an up and coming team? they are about to get hammered by the ncaa and are the 4th best team in florida.
gerwmor writes:
This is one of the genuinely perceptive posts I have read on any of the boards. If UT fans will look back to Kelly Washington (and yes he dazzled us against Alabama in his break out game), and see how poorly Fulmer was handling players during that period, the source and evolution of the problems today will be obvious. UT did not let Fulmer go a year ealry; UT kept him several years too long. He deserves our respect for what he did in his best years (I lived in Alabama during the 11 in a row and it was fabulous). But the program deteriorated much more than most of us want to admit.
snakeplissken writes:
This post is laughable. Fulmer won the SEC east in 2004 and 2007. Every program goes through cycles. 2005 was a bad year, then when 2008 turned out to be another bad year a change was necessary.
VolinVirginia writes:
And the first post in this discussion deals with Fulmer. OMg, here we go again.
One year? Fulmer was given several years, and couldn't get us out of the SEC East.
IMO, Fulmer should have been able to finish out his contract. Sure, Fulmer would have continued down the path he was headed, and it would have been PAINFUL to watch. But we could have made a clean break with him, shown him the door, and moved on with a new coach. However, it wouldn't have cost us MILLIONS to get rid of him.
VolinVirginia writes:
Laughed out loud at that one!
Sorry: these acolytes will keep posting here until Fulmer finds another college/university that is interested in him.
These people post comments that would get them laughed off any other board. It reminds me of Paul Rudd's character in the movie "The 40 Year Old Virgin:" two years later and he still couldn't turn the page.
They have nowhere else to go.....
VolinVirginia writes:
Dooley has had one season, and three games in this season. Plus, he inherited the mess that Fulmer and Kiffin created. Fulmer had more than enough time and couldn't get us past the SEC East. Kiffin had one year at UT and only added to the mess.
IMO, Dooley should be given at least as much time to fix the mess as Fulmer and Kiffin had to create the mess.
GainesvilleVol1 writes:
What would our record be if we got Dooley after Fulmer?
Also, anyone else happy USC lost this weekend?
GO VOLS!!
snakeplissken writes:
Since some UT fans differ on whether Dooley can get it done, maybe their expectations will shed light on their beliefs. So let's define what we think expectations should be for Dooley this season, as well as 2012 and 2013. I'll go first.
I think Dooley needs to win 8 games this season to show we're making progress and moving in the right direction. Our out of conference schedule was softened up for him in his second year of rebuilding. Neither Georgia or South Carolina appear to be unbeatable by any stretch of the imagination and we play them both in Knoxville. Arkansas proved they're not a contender and look very beatable. Since we play them at their place a slight edge goes to them. 8 wins this regular season of 2011 is my expectation.
2012: I'd say a minimum of 9 victories and finishing no worse than second in the SEC east.
2013: A minimum of 10 victories and the SEC east champion.
By not reaching any of these expectations should put Dooley on watch. The 2013 season will be 4 full years for Dooley to prove he's the man for the job.
johnlg00#206211 writes:
Only because the SEC IS the toughest conference in the country and because all but the most die-hard UT fans know that, because of the lack of quality depth in D-I prospects across the state, it is harder to win at UT than at some other places, I would be inclined to shave one game each season off of your standards. Otherwise, you are in the ball park. I'm a Dooley supporter and more patient than most, but I agree that the program needs to show it is making real progress, starting about...now.
snakeplissken writes:
There's a good supply of Div. 1 prospects in the state this year, including several 4 star players, but most are committing elsewhere.
I think most Tennessee fans are patient, but we all expect to see "some" progress this second year. Going 6-6 with an easier out of conference schedule is going backward, not forward. Dooley needs a signature win or two to show hope for the future.
johnlg00#206211 writes:
Since I don't live in the state at present, I don't really follow TN HS football that closely. Still, I am aware that there several players in-state in any given year that could be successful in the SEC. The thing is, guys who are committing for this coming class were most likely recruited or at least contacted while they were 10th-graders, if not before, i.e., just after Fulmer was let go.
Then there was Kiffen who had no real knowledge of more than a handful of TN HS players. Then Dooley came in with the same handicap. So it could be assumed that those potential stars were NOT consistently recruited by anyone from UT while they WERE consistently recruited by other SEC/D-I schools. Add the NCAA uncertainties, and it is a marvel that Dooley's last class and even this one are ranked as high as they are.
Even if Dooley's staff started as soon as they hit town to recruit Tennessee kids, as I am sure they did, they would only have a realistic chance for the most part with those who were 9th- and 10th-graders then.
Unlike some of the more unrealistic fans on here, I don't think there are a whole lot of kids these days who grow up with playing football at UT as their life-long dream. More and more Tennesseans these days have roots elsewhere. Thanks to cable and satellite TV, they can become familiar with top programs across the country. I don't offer these as excuses for UT allowing top-quality in-state prospects to "escape", but I am saying that there is more involved these days than simply extending offers to them and expecting that their natural affinities to the state university will draw them in.
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