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in response to THEKIDWISCONSIN: Well said Banner. Godley is gone & some of the pitching we need will surely go high enough in the June draft to bypass college... Like you said, there just doesn't seem to be any fire at all and it starts at the top. You'd liked to have seen at least SOME improvement so the pressure isn't so great going into year three...but there just wasn't any & I hate to draw comparisons, but year three under CDS is going to be just like year three under Dooley...win or we're starting over again...with another program. And yes, feel very bad for the kids. So disappointing.
in response to THEKIDWISCONSIN:
Well said Banner.
Godley is gone & some of the pitching we need will surely go high enough in the June draft to bypass college...
Like you said, there just doesn't seem to be any fire at all and it starts at the top.
You'd liked to have seen at least SOME improvement so the pressure isn't so great going into year three...but there just wasn't any & I hate to draw comparisons, but year three under CDS is going to be just like year three under Dooley...win or we're starting over again...with another program.
And yes, feel very bad for the kids. So disappointing.
Guys our coach could do hand stands but it will not change the fact that this team lacks talent. The job will get done but when you have three SEC players when you arrive on campus and one full recruiting cycle under your belt, its not going to turn overnight. I am disappointed but based on what I am hearing the players are coming. UT needs pitchers and lots of them. Right now we just can't compete if we have to score 10 runs a game to just keep it close.
in response to DC82_Vol: The one thing I thought Dooley would be good at, recruiting, and apparently, he couldn't do that too well either. Like many people, I wanted Dooley to work out for the sake of UT FB. In hindsight, I am trying to figure out what he did well except entertain the media with his analogies.
in response to DC82_Vol:
The one thing I thought Dooley would be good at, recruiting, and apparently, he couldn't do that too well either.
Like many people, I wanted Dooley to work out for the sake of UT FB. In hindsight, I am trying to figure out what he did well except entertain the media with his analogies.
I agree 100% with what you said. As a UT fan we really needed him to be good if not great. What I am starting to wonder is what made Hamilton (I know he was a horrible AD)pick Dooley? Their just was nothing in the resume that suggested this guy would be even average. Oh well we will bet there soon enough. I just hope I am alive to see it.
in response to FWBVol: First of all, it's not 3,000 miles, maybe 1,5000. Second, read what the story says, the athlete has to request the release. Granted, Martin probably told the kid he'd be buried on the bench, but if Landry had pushed the issue Tennessee would have been required to honor his scholarship for one year. Finally, nothing against New Mexico State, but if the kid was that strong of a recruit it seems as if someone in a better conference would have offered him a scholly.
in response to FWBVol:
First of all, it's not 3,000 miles, maybe 1,5000. Second, read what the story says, the athlete has to request the release. Granted, Martin probably told the kid he'd be buried on the bench, but if Landry had pushed the issue Tennessee would have been required to honor his scholarship for one year.
Finally, nothing against New Mexico State, but if the kid was that strong of a recruit it seems as if someone in a better conference would have offered him a scholly.
Vandy offered as well as a number of other Major D1 schools. Most schools no longer have openings for a PG. The reality is UT didn't do this kid any favors. We can all chalk it up to the big business of college sports but it still doesn't make it right.
I wish this kid well. I hate that he had to go 3000 miles to find a decent opportunity after we messed him over.
in response to johnlg00: Any club will do for the anti-Martin faction to use to beat him up with. Almost everybody saw the recruitment of the Landry kid as a gamble, but perhaps one Martin had to take at the time. In retrospect, it would have undoubtedly been better not to have offered him so soon. Landry also took a gamble by leaving his public high school to enroll at a "basketball factory". The idea was surely to hone his skills at a higher level to be better prepared for SEC play. The trouble was that he found himself buried on the depth chart and wound up playing so little his game deteriorated along with his confidence and his attractiveness to a high-level program. He probably would have been better off getting playing time and production where he was before, even if at a slightly lower level of competition. If he averaged 18 ppg, 8 apg, 3 spg, and a 3:1 assist-to-turnover ratio, while shooting 45% from the field and 80% from the line, this would have been a WAY tougher call all around. Those stats are a pretty close approximation to those of the Thompson kid who UT signed basically in Landry's place, and Thompson is about 4 to 5 inches taller than Landry. I hope Landry finds a good place to land. I'm pretty sure CCM is helping him find such a place. I have nothing against him. He would have appeared to be a long-shot prospect at the SEC level; this particular long-shot didn't pay off.
in response to johnlg00:
Any club will do for the anti-Martin faction to use to beat him up with. Almost everybody saw the recruitment of the Landry kid as a gamble, but perhaps one Martin had to take at the time. In retrospect, it would have undoubtedly been better not to have offered him so soon.
Landry also took a gamble by leaving his public high school to enroll at a "basketball factory". The idea was surely to hone his skills at a higher level to be better prepared for SEC play. The trouble was that he found himself buried on the depth chart and wound up playing so little his game deteriorated along with his confidence and his attractiveness to a high-level program.
He probably would have been better off getting playing time and production where he was before, even if at a slightly lower level of competition. If he averaged 18 ppg, 8 apg, 3 spg, and a 3:1 assist-to-turnover ratio, while shooting 45% from the field and 80% from the line, this would have been a WAY tougher call all around. Those stats are a pretty close approximation to those of the Thompson kid who UT signed basically in Landry's place, and Thompson is about 4 to 5 inches taller than Landry.
I hope Landry finds a good place to land. I'm pretty sure CCM is helping him find such a place. I have nothing against him. He would have appeared to be a long-shot prospect at the SEC level; this particular long-shot didn't pay off.
The problem is the kid average double digit minutes. He played quite a bit he just wasn't offensive oriented. This was a really poor job by coach Martin in managing his team. This to me goes back to not recruiting a PG since he has been here. Martins may leave UT without ever having brought in a true PG. Next up will be another HS wing who will be asked to do what he has never done before and we will act shocked when it doesn't work out again.
in response to tennlions: Maybe you don't realize this but this situation is the norm for college BB recruiting. It's certainly possible that the final decision wasn't made until just recently. Anybody that cries for this kid or any other recruit shouldn't misplace those tears. Personally, I don't like the practice of oversigning but teams need to do it to guard against the decisions that players make to leave early or not.
in response to tennlions:
Maybe you don't realize this but this situation is the norm for college BB recruiting. It's certainly possible that the final decision wasn't made until just recently. Anybody that cries for this kid or any other recruit shouldn't misplace those tears. Personally, I don't like the practice of oversigning but teams need to do it to guard against the decisions that players make to leave early or not.
This is not the norm here. You don't sign papers in November and get cut before you ever make it to campus by the same coach who signed you. It has happened quite a bit when a new coach comes in and decides the player is not a fit for his system but even then its usually a suggested move not a get out town move (Dobson at UT is an example of this). I love UT and I like Martin but this is a stain that will never come out.
in response to volfan2002: There was a point guard that was in school that never played for Tennessee while Pearl was here. I forget his name Pearl went and signed another point guard Goins and he got pushed out the door so yes it did happen.
in response to volfan2002:
There was a point guard that was in school that never played for Tennessee while Pearl was here. I forget his name Pearl went and signed another point guard Goins and he got pushed out the door so yes it did happen.
That PG was from Detroit and was unable to convince the NCAA clearinghouse. He actually enrolled for a semester and had good grades but it didn't matter. He could no longer afford to pay his way an additional semester so he went to a JC in Florida. I think the same one that Jones the Memphis kid went to. That was not Pearls fault that he did not get in here. What Martin did is really rare and reflects poorly on him and our program. I wish the best for Landry because he certainly deserved better then this.
in response to johnlg00: I think you are making too much of this as well. As you said, this happened with Peterson and it also happened with Pearl--remember Boomer Herndon? In fact, if you heard as much on a regular basis about most other programs as you do about UT, you would know that, regrettable as it might seem on the surface, this happens almost everywhere sometimes and somewhere all the time. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Chances are Landry will find someplace where he might actually get to play. Unless there are some freaky circumstances we don't know about to account for his apparent low level of production last season, he may have never gotten off the bench at UT anyway. It occurs to me that he might have made a mistake in transferring to that high-power program in the first place. If he wasn't good enough to get off the bench at his high school, he probably wasn't good enough to play in the SEC, no matter what he or his dad might have thought.
I think you are making too much of this as well. As you said, this happened with Peterson and it also happened with Pearl--remember Boomer Herndon? In fact, if you heard as much on a regular basis about most other programs as you do about UT, you would know that, regrettable as it might seem on the surface, this happens almost everywhere sometimes and somewhere all the time. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Chances are Landry will find someplace where he might actually get to play. Unless there are some freaky circumstances we don't know about to account for his apparent low level of production last season, he may have never gotten off the bench at UT anyway. It occurs to me that he might have made a mistake in transferring to that high-power program in the first place. If he wasn't good enough to get off the bench at his high school, he probably wasn't good enough to play in the SEC, no matter what he or his dad might have thought.
Players are NEVER cut before they even get to campus unless they do something stupid. Herndon Had spent two years at UT before he left. You are right that players are asked to move on all the time and if Edwards had been asked to move on I would have gotten it but in this case you sign a kid in November and cut him in April well that just doesn't work for me. By the way had Landry asked for his release and UT said no he would have had to sit two years to get back into D1.
in response to allvollego: I honestly just cannot agree with people saying that this move stinks. I don't mean to say this to knock high school players, but high major college basketball is indeed that, and some illustrate that they are not ready for such an opportunity. Landry is not currently ready, and his stats are not the only thing that show it. I have watched Huntington Prep play several times on television and I must say there are young guys 3 or 4 players deep who contribute more on both ends of the floor. Landry does have heart, but that can only get you so far in this world where basketball talent is expected to produce immediately. I also think its a win because Tennessee is re-establishing itself as contenders when it comes to in state recruiting.
in response to allvollego:
I honestly just cannot agree with people saying that this move stinks. I don't mean to say this to knock high school players, but high major college basketball is indeed that, and some illustrate that they are not ready for such an opportunity. Landry is not currently ready, and his stats are not the only thing that show it. I have watched Huntington Prep play several times on television and I must say there are young guys 3 or 4 players deep who contribute more on both ends of the floor. Landry does have heart, but that can only get you so far in this world where basketball talent is expected to produce immediately. I also think its a win because Tennessee is re-establishing itself as contenders when it comes to in state recruiting.
Then why offer him two years ago and why not make this move back in the fall when he would have had ample time to get situated? It stinks and I would bet Martin would be the first to admit it to his close friends.
in response to lemme_axya_this: Wasn't Philip Juric a casualty of a Bruce Pearl numbers crunch?
in response to lemme_axya_this:
Wasn't Philip Juric a casualty of a Bruce Pearl numbers crunch?
Juric was a casualty of Mary Jane he is a good example of a player that maybe Pearl should have dumped but honored the commitment. After a year of bad grades and other activities he was on his way.
in response to volfan2002: I think we need to know the entire story before we jump to conclusions. Landry may have asked for the release because he wasn't going to get any playing time. Regardless it has happened at every University in America that has a basketball team. Bruce Pearl did it a couple of times when he was coach. Most of the time it is better for the player and the team and I think both Tennessee and Landry will be better off for this decision.
I think we need to know the entire story before we jump to conclusions. Landry may have asked for the release because he wasn't going to get any playing time. Regardless it has happened at every University in America that has a basketball team. Bruce Pearl did it a couple of times when he was coach. Most of the time it is better for the player and the team and I think both Tennessee and Landry will be better off for this decision.
Pearl never cut a player he signed. he did tell that Dobson kid he would never get off the bench if he stayed and suggested he go but that was a Buzz guy. This is bad anyway you look at it. The father was interviewed two weeks ago and said no one has spoken to him or his son about prep school or looking elsewhere. Additionally Huntington Prep is big time school and now we have trashed that relationship. Just an FYI here, one of our top targets just transferred there so I think its safe to say he probably doesn't go to UT.
I get why Martin did it but this stinks to high heaven.
I personally hate what just happened here. Martins best asset is his integrity and in this one move he has lost it with me and made it easy to recruit against him. This is consistent with what Buzz did and we saw how that worked out. Its bad enough that you would not have room for a kid who commits to you early in the process. It worse when you let said player sign his papers and then you shove him away leaving him with very limited opportunities. If you sign him then you should accept him. What happened here is a shame. Now that coach Martin has ventured into the sewer here he may find out as many other coaches have its hard to get out.
in response to WaltGoVoIs: You are missing the point. Say Ms. Mason's performance just fell off the table like a rock. Dave "Your Cheating" Hart is -surely- good at -something-. I mean, he's been in the corporate halls of power for a -long- time. So even if this gal is an 'at will' employee, he needed to have some sort of paper trail to support his actions. Instead, there is a ten year string of good, even outstanding performance reports. So he has to coerce critical letters from other coaches that would support a decision to terminate this lady's employment. Just happen to have a lawsuit filed against him, don't you know. It just stinks. And it also supports an interpretation that here is -another- aspect to his job that he is -not-good-at-. Now of course this is just a hypothesis I am putting forward. But it sure does quack and walk like a very guilty and sleazy duck. Walt UT '81
in response to WaltGoVoIs:
You are missing the point.
Say Ms. Mason's performance just fell off the table like a rock. Dave "Your Cheating" Hart is -surely- good at -something-. I mean, he's been in the corporate halls of power for a -long- time.
So even if this gal is an 'at will' employee, he needed to have some sort of paper trail to support his actions. Instead, there is a ten year string of good, even outstanding performance reports.
So he has to coerce critical letters from other coaches that would support a decision to terminate this lady's employment. Just happen to have a lawsuit filed against him, don't you know. It just stinks.
And it also supports an interpretation that here is -another- aspect to his job that he is -not-good-at-.
Now of course this is just a hypothesis I am putting forward. But it sure does quack and walk like a very guilty and sleazy duck.
Walt
UT '81
So what your saying is Hart fired all the football coaches including the S&C coach and not not coach Jones. In Walt world coaches don't make any decisions on support staff that is only done by the AD. Before you answer Dooley game Chaney and company outstanding remarks in their reviews. If hart was goiong to seek revenge he would have done it long before now. Her firing was a business decision made by coaches who are protecting their jobs by hiring employees who are on the same page as they are. Kind of like Butch Jones did and every other coach has ever done. I am sorry your sister or wife got drilled here but thats the way it goes sometimes. I am sure with all of her talent she should have no problem landing on her feet with a significant pay raise.
in response to WaltGoVoIs: Yep. Didn't some idiot opine that this was the smoking gun that showed why Ms. Mason was fired? What an idiot. If you were called to the office of a guy who looks like the last mummy pulled from the Valley of the Kings, who the embalmers were still spooling his intestines into a jug of unguent, you'd produce a bogus letter too. Okay, Holly Warlick is not established yet as the coach of the Lady Vols. And per the complaint, her testosterone level is set wrong. But here's the kick, the Lady Vols know that she caved and provided a bogus letter on this trainer at the behest of said mummy. It could be a big behind the scenes problem for them. But Dave "Your Cheating" Hart could care less if UT sports teams have success. Walt UT '81
Yep.
Didn't some idiot opine that this was the smoking gun that showed why Ms. Mason was fired? What an idiot.
If you were called to the office of a guy who looks like the last mummy pulled from the Valley of the Kings, who the embalmers were still spooling his intestines into a jug of unguent, you'd produce a bogus letter too.
Okay, Holly Warlick is not established yet as the coach of the Lady Vols. And per the complaint, her testosterone level is set wrong.
But here's the kick, the Lady Vols know that she caved and provided a bogus letter on this trainer at the behest of said mummy. It could be a big behind the scenes problem for them.
But Dave "Your Cheating" Hart could care less if UT sports teams have success.
Warwick stated in a thread unrelated tho this one that her team had to get in better condition if they wanted to compete. You of all people who clearly follows the lady vols should have thought to yourself that changes were in the making if the head coach is not happy with her teams off season conditioning. Instead all you are concerned about is the AD who said if you don't like your staff change it. Dumping this lady will not save the department a nickle because they are replacing her. Sometimes you have to make change for the better. I am sure your sister will be able to find work down at the 24 hour gym.
in response to WaltGoVoIs: It's Post Facto. It doesn't mean squat. If anything it shows "Your Cheating' Hart in a bad light. If he wanted to get rid of this gal punitively, he needed to have attempts at performance counseling on paper before hand. One of the crappy things we had to do in the Marine Corps was make page 11 entries on Marines who were doing a great job, but that we wanted to get a little more time in grade before you recommended them for corporal or sergeant. These Marines had to sign a statement in their record books, "Not recommended for promotion at this time due to blah, blah, blah." We'd just tell them - "Don't worry. It's just BS required by HQMC. You're right on track." It prevented some from saying, "Well, no one told me I wasn't doing a great job." Again - this shows the administration in a bad light if anything. Walt UT '81
It's Post Facto. It doesn't mean squat. If anything it shows "Your Cheating' Hart in a bad light. If he wanted to get rid of this gal punitively, he needed to have attempts at performance counseling on paper before hand.
One of the crappy things we had to do in the Marine Corps was make page 11 entries on Marines who were doing a great job, but that we wanted to get a little more time in grade before you recommended them for corporal or sergeant. These Marines had to sign a statement in their record books, "Not recommended for promotion at this time due to blah, blah, blah."
We'd just tell them - "Don't worry. It's just BS required by HQMC. You're right on track."
It prevented some from saying, "Well, no one told me I wasn't doing a great job."
Again - this shows the administration in a bad light if anything.
Are you Serious? I guess UT should have given Dooley three warnings as well. Maybe coach Jones shouldn't have been allowed to dump is S&C coach(as well as everyone else) as well. We are not in a union here. These are not hourly employees. Get a grip. Your hatred of Hart has blinded you and has made your opinions meaningless.
This has to hurt all the Dave Hart bashers here. They should have picked up on it when Coach Warwick mentioned that we have to get into better shape ext year. That was a direct shot at the S&C team.
in response to jack4444: The whole thing comes down to Hamilton's hire of Kiffin. Hamilton had months to make that decision and he couldn't have made a worse one. The Dooley hire was in like a 2 week window. Quit complaining about Dooley and complain about how Hammy set UT football back 5 years with his lil Lane hire.
in response to jack4444:
The whole thing comes down to Hamilton's hire of Kiffin.
Hamilton had months to make that decision and he couldn't have made a worse one. The Dooley hire was in like a 2 week window.
Quit complaining about Dooley and complain about how Hammy set UT football back 5 years with his lil Lane hire.
I do agree that hammy damaged this athletic department more then Professionalhandicaper could have dreamed of.
in response to voloffaith: get over it........Dooley didn't fumble..throw interception...etc...one who won't give up the past and its twist and turns...........
in response to voloffaith:
get over it........Dooley didn't fumble..throw interception...etc...one who won't give up the past and its twist and turns...........
Get over it. Voloffaith is just listing the obvious. Dooley damaged a lot of careers except his own. he managed to leave with an additional 5 million in his pocket. I feel sorry for all the players, coaches and UT and La. Tech fans that had to endure Dooley and his ineptness.
Good luck Tyler. make the most of this opportunity.
in response to tennesseetyler: U forgot all Bama Dave is doing is padding his retirement...dismissed trish summit...joan Cronin should have been AD.....Added 8 assistant AD from his good ole boy network...botched the head coach hiring process..added Dooley 2.0...he's a lawsuit waiting to happen look at his FSU days and since he now doesn't have to post it will allow flowers more time for his truth squad circle jerk with turdy todd and Walt can be the pivot man..
in response to tennesseetyler:
U forgot all Bama Dave is doing is padding his retirement...dismissed trish summit...joan Cronin should have been AD.....Added 8 assistant AD from his good ole boy network...botched the head coach hiring process..added Dooley 2.0...he's a lawsuit waiting to happen look at his FSU days and since he now doesn't have to post it will allow flowers more time for his truth squad circle jerk with turdy todd and Walt can be the pivot man..
Joan ruled herself out. We all love Pat but she was in no shape to coach and would have damaged her legacy and allowed another program to tumble to depths unknown in UT history. Additionally Hart has made the unpopular decisions that needed to be made to get this program solvent once again. Lets face it, Dave Hart came into a 6 alarm fire and anyone who thinks it was going to be easy to turn this around was crazy.
I do agree with a previous poster though and wonder why its necessary to extend a contract that is in force for another 5 years? I would like to see the turn before I go crazy and extend the AD.
in response to traderjoe: If you have talent and you're not picked, then this is very telling regarding how others view your character. Bray and Da'Rick will be used as examples when coaches are warning their players about behavior on and off the field for some time to come. When the NFL passes because of character, then you know they have serious doubts because the league has taken more than a fair share of bad actors over the years and what they seem to be finding out is that character often wins out over talent in the long run particularly when you are in a team sport. Maybe Bray and Rogers eventually make it, but not learning how to behave has been quite costly to both and I'm sure they would not choose the same path again if given the choice.
in response to traderjoe:
If you have talent and you're not picked, then this is very telling regarding how others view your character. Bray and Da'Rick will be used as examples when coaches are warning their players about behavior on and off the field for some time to come. When the NFL passes because of character, then you know they have serious doubts because the league has taken more than a fair share of bad actors over the years and what they seem to be finding out is that character often wins out over talent in the long run particularly when you are in a team sport. Maybe Bray and Rogers eventually make it, but not learning how to behave has been quite costly to both and I'm sure they would not choose the same path again if given the choice.
Bray never got suspended. He acted like 80% of the kids in college do. Bray didn't get drafted because he never developed from his freshman season to his junior year. He continued to make mistakes that should have been coached out of him but weren't. I feel for Bray and worry that incidents like his reflect poorly on UT and how they handle and develop their talent. If you don't think other schools will use that against us your fools. I love Jones but if I am a coach at another school I think its easy to point out that maybe this coach can coach and maybe he can't. If you come here you know what your getting. Its unfortunate but as some previous posters have noted, Dooley is probably the worst coach in UT history and we may pay a continued price for that.
I have been critical of the Bray haters but I guess they were right when it came to draft projections. I still think he will make a fine pro. I feel bad for a kid that with his arm to have maybe the worst coach in UT history mentor him. A coach he didn't choose to play for.
AWESOME!! Lets not treat him with the disrespect we usually do with players that come an extra year.
in response to collegegrovebilly: (This comment was removed by the site staff.)
in response to collegegrovebilly:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Don't forget with you in charge we will have the first athletic department to go bankrupt. Congratulations you are qualified to run for President!
Good job AD Hart get rid of the riff raft!!
in response to suggest_removal_4_all_troll_posts: I'm not buying it -- I don't see the same degree of criticism for Hunter, Patterson, Rivera, or Rogers from the UT fan base. Foster wasn't drafted because of UT fan base comments but his performance. It's the NFL scouts that are confirming Bray's immaturity. Just like Foster, Bray may go onto to successful NFL career but just like Foster it will be a gamble.
in response to suggest_removal_4_all_troll_posts:
I'm not buying it -- I don't see the same degree of criticism for Hunter, Patterson, Rivera, or Rogers from the UT fan base.
Foster wasn't drafted because of UT fan base comments but his performance.
It's the NFL scouts that are confirming Bray's immaturity.
Just like Foster, Bray may go onto to successful NFL career but just like Foster it will be a gamble.
I will agree with you that Foster was not drafted because of his performance however his performance was directly effected by the firestorm of hatred from this fan base. Had he gone pro the year before he could have been a 2nd-4th round pick however he regressed in a new system that nobody on the team understood and had to play with a bad Oline and a QB that makes Bray look like a Rhoades Scholar.
in response to vol98champ: If he admits to only giving 70%, my guess is the real number is 50% or less. Foster fumbled and Bray had brain cramps when the game was on the line. Both cost us a lot of wins. Foster's fumbles cost him millions. Bray's cramps likely will do the same.
in response to vol98champ:
If he admits to only giving 70%, my guess is the real number is 50% or less. Foster fumbled and Bray had brain cramps when the game was on the line. Both cost us a lot of wins. Foster's fumbles cost him millions. Bray's cramps likely will do the same.
Maybe UT should have taught Foster how to carry the ball properly. He doesn't seem to have a problem with fumbling anymore. The fact of the amtter is we still blame Foster for our problems and we ALL said he would never make it in teh NFL. Look how wrong we were. This is way to common with the UT faithful. When a player doesn't live up to our expectations we shred him and despise him and hope he fails. Ironically if Bray came back and won 8 games (which would be awesome with the group we have now) we fans would hate him for not winning the other 4. Its the nature of this fan base right now.
in response to dcap8424: So... you're saying all those fumbles weren't Foster's fault? Really?
in response to dcap8424:
So... you're saying all those fumbles weren't Foster's fault? Really?
What I am saying is Foster wasn't horrible like EVERYONE said he was. bray was not the problem like most want to believe. Its incredible that we can discuss him not coming through after he lead our teams to 49 pts against UGA. Whats sad is we had to score a TD even tough we had over 40pts on the board. Had Bray thrown a strike for a TD against UGA does anyone believe they would not have gone down field in 30 seconds and score? I believe that if put in the right situation, Bray will be a good QB. His biggest issue is he isn't quick enough and that has nothing to do with his will or his brains. Bray was thrown into a terrible situation and he did a lot to make it tolerable but no matter how talented he was or is nothing was going to stop Coach Dooley from going down as the worst coach in UT history.
Most of the posters above are the same ones that said Foster was worst back in UT history and had no chance in the NFL. I have said it before and will say it again. Its not Brays fault UT failed. His first season he lead his team to the winning field goal against NC only to have Dooley and company blow it in 20 seconds. Its tough to lead when you have no one leading you. Bray never threw his team under the bus like his coach did. Bray never came out and said we were not good like his coach did often the first two years. Bray wasn't the one that lead the celebration of beating Vandy as if we had won the SEC. Bray may or may not be great in the pros but we should root for him. Lets not do him like we did Foster and Washington. Lets not take out our own frustrations and expectations on the players.
in response to xanga: CCM = Fired...but not for 6 years. Thx Hamilton
in response to xanga:
CCM = Fired...but not for 6 years. Thx Hamilton
Good move for Fincher,he will likely be the interim coach when Buzz gets zinged again.
in response to rbwtn: Bottom Line; Obviously Stokes doesn't care about UT basketball at all he's using it simply to get into the Pros. When it comes to money most say; you can't blame him however having character means something in life too and may come back to haunt him personally. BY the simple fact it is taking him so long to make up his mind, Some agent is filling his ear full of reasons to go NBA. The heck with values it's a money thing only. In my opinion.
in response to rbwtn:
Bottom Line; Obviously Stokes doesn't care about UT basketball at all he's using it simply to get into the Pros. When it comes to money most say; you can't blame him however having character means something in life too and may come back to haunt him personally. BY the simple fact it is taking him so long to make up his mind, Some agent is filling his ear full of reasons to go NBA. The heck with values it's a money thing only. In my opinion.
Your comment is pretty dumb. If anyone is offered an opportunity to fulfill their dream and also make seven figures while doing it would be a fool not to take advantage of it. Additionally it has nothing to do with their character. I think your comment shows utter complete selfishness.
As for players who have come back to UT, most are despised by fans such as yourself if things don't work out. Ask Kelly Washington, Foster and a slew of others.
in response to 1vavolfan: Yemi had his moments, I was disappointed that he never developed the way he should. I do think if he played for a smaller school like ETSU he could play 35 mpg and put up some decent numbers, can't really say the same about Pops. Yemi was a difference maker at times, in the Xavier game Stokes couldn't play any defense and Yemi came in and prevented any points in the post and offensive rebounds and UT pulled away to win. When Stokes improved in January, Yemi's role diminished.
in response to 1vavolfan:
Yemi had his moments, I was disappointed that he never developed the way he should. I do think if he played for a smaller school like ETSU he could play 35 mpg and put up some decent numbers, can't really say the same about Pops.
Yemi was a difference maker at times, in the Xavier game Stokes couldn't play any defense and Yemi came in and prevented any points in the post and offensive rebounds and UT pulled away to win. When Stokes improved in January, Yemi's role diminished.
I had high hopes for Yemi as well. What disappointed me was his complete lack of shot blocking capabilities. I don't want my 6ft 10in center leading the team in charges. I want him leading the team in blocks and he just didn't have that ability. Its my understanding that Pops can block shots and challenge shooters. Also its my understanding that he was hurt the entire year which stunted his numbers. I hope so but I really don't think he can be any worse then Yemi.
in response to 1vavolfan: Bad news here, UT lost Hall to graduation and who knows about Stokes. Yemi was serviceable backup, I doubt this pops kid is coordinated enough to see the floor against D1 competition.
Bad news here, UT lost Hall to graduation and who knows about Stokes. Yemi was serviceable backup, I doubt this pops kid is coordinated enough to see the floor against D1 competition.
Yemi was not a servicable back up. Martin basically said its was time to move on. Tough for Yemi but he can actually get in a league that he really should have been in initially. Good luck Yemi welcome Pops
in response to w4tey#282182: What's with the Maymon comments. You guys know something we don't? I have a staph infection in my leg. Don't know about Maymon but that shouldn't prevent a return if it's being treated correctly. That's assuming that's the problem. If it's a structural problem then that's another tale.
in response to w4tey#282182:
What's with the Maymon comments. You guys know something we don't? I have a staph infection in my leg. Don't know about Maymon but that shouldn't prevent a return if it's being treated correctly. That's assuming that's the problem. If it's a structural problem then that's another tale.
Don't read the junk that comes from this board. Everyone likes to act like they know something. Maymann will more then likely play. I think this move may be more related to the fact that Yemi just isn't good enough to play at this level and I guess Martin thinks Pops is. I hope he is right because we need a little bit of depth in the front court for sure. I would be curious to know how this guy played his freshmen year at JC.
in response to rtrchatt: Outside of Manning UT has no QB legacy in the NFL. Bama has 4 QBs that won Super Bowls, Starr, Namath, Stabler and Ruthledge. Richard Todd played a decade and AJ is the next Champion on the way. Tide fb a legacy like no other. 23 SEC titles is Bama fb.
in response to rtrchatt:
Outside of Manning UT has no QB legacy in the NFL. Bama has 4 QBs that won Super Bowls, Starr, Namath, Stabler and Ruthledge. Richard Todd played a decade and AJ is the next Champion on the way. Tide fb a legacy like no other. 23 SEC titles is Bama fb.
I am sure if I went back to a time before I was born like you have I could find a few QBs at UT who did some big things in the league. My question to you is why are you on this site?
in response to GerryOP: Nailed it? Nonsense! All 45 did was offer the same old tired excuses why Bray did not simply take the role as the leader of those teams. He never threw anyone under the bus, but his supporters keep coming up with the same, tired excuses for not being the leader. Just like Coach Dooley was expected to deliver victories regardless of the conditions he was coaching under, Bray too should have pulled at least one victory from the loss column ... there were plenty of games close enough to win. He may have (quote) a strong arm and natural athletic ability (unquote), but if he were a true leader he would have found some way to win at leat one of those close games. Why? Because that's what leaders do! Tyler Bray could not do it. And do not forget one other fact, Tyler Bray came to UT to play for Lane Kiffin, not Derek Dooley. I do not think that Bray ever got over the fact that Kiffin left him in Knoxville, and he was not man enough to accept a one-year penalty as the price to follow Kiffin to SC. But, go ahead, blame it all on Coach Dooley.
in response to GerryOP:
Nailed it? Nonsense! All 45 did was offer the same old tired excuses why Bray did not simply take the role as the leader of those teams. He never threw anyone under the bus, but his supporters keep coming up with the same, tired excuses for not being the leader. Just like Coach Dooley was expected to deliver victories regardless of the conditions he was coaching under, Bray too should have pulled at least one victory from the loss column ... there were plenty of games close enough to win. He may have (quote) a strong arm and natural athletic ability (unquote), but if he were a true leader he would have found some way to win at leat one of those close games. Why? Because that's what leaders do! Tyler Bray could not do it.
And do not forget one other fact, Tyler Bray came to UT to play for Lane Kiffin, not Derek Dooley. I do not think that Bray ever got over the fact that Kiffin left him in Knoxville, and he was not man enough to accept a one-year penalty as the price to follow Kiffin to SC. But, go ahead, blame it all on Coach Dooley.
Also lets not forget that UT is the only team in the conference without a true SEC RB. Thats not Brays fault. Its a lot easier to make a big pass when teams are loading the box but Bray really wasn't afforded that.
I will blame it on Dooley. A QB should not have to put 50 on the board to get a signature win. Not saying Bray was a great leader all I am saying is he is not the reason we stunk. By the way your opinion of him would not have changed with one signature win. Think about the bowl game he played in. He got us the lead with 30 seconds left and our coaches let NC go 60 yards with no timeouts. Thats not Brays fault.
in response to 45ReVOLver: (This comment was removed by the site staff.)
in response to 45ReVOLver:
You nailed it. Not sure why our fans can't see that this team was so poorly coached that the players really ahd no chance. The hate towards Bray rivals that of the hate and blame towards Foster back a few years ago. EVERYONE said he would never make it and that he was the reason we stunk. AS we look back its easy to realize he wasn't the problem and either was Bray.
First game will be the toughest. If we handle that I think this team will roll. hate that we are not in it but this team needed to take care of business in the tourney and we just didn't do it.
in response to emailnodata: All teams at the lower end have weaknesses. Some play "nothing" schedules. Others have lost more games than they've won over the last 2 months. What comes into play in the a##-end of the brackets is "cinderealla appeal". Bama, UT, anyone else from the SEC does NOT have that. The selection committee caved to the talking heads, many of whom have a grand dislike for teh SEC dude to our arrogance in football.
in response to emailnodata:
All teams at the lower end have weaknesses. Some play "nothing" schedules. Others have lost more games than they've won over the last 2 months.
What comes into play in the a##-end of the brackets is "cinderealla appeal". Bama, UT, anyone else from the SEC does NOT have that. The selection committee caved to the talking heads, many of whom have a grand dislike for teh SEC dude to our arrogance in football.
I somewhat agree but I also think the conference was hurt by terrible scheduling by 1/2 the teams in the conference (not including UT). Ole Miss, U Alabama, LSU, A&M, USC all played terrible schedules and even though they had good records they were not thought of highly. As a conference their needs to be a push to go out and play quality opponents in the preseason.
Bottom line is we didn't get it done when we had to against UA. No good wins away from TBA. I get why we are not in. Lets make the best of it.
I enjoy this teams effort but really they are not a really good team. If I am on the committee I take UA or Ole Miss over us. I just can't take a team who lost two games to both of those teams. We miss that guy who can step up and carry a team to the end when the rest of the guys don't have it. Mcrae is great and Golden can make FTs but really we need a guy who can make it happen when nothing else is working and we don't have it.
in response to 6futurevols: Observations from the game: - must win game and we won, but it should have never been this close - Kenny Hall has been good on offense for several games now; he needs to quit trying to draw charging fouls and instead try to block some shots on these driving guards - McBee was a big defensive liability last night. Got caught twice on off-ball screeens and gave up catch and shoot 3's, then got blown by for a traditional 3 point play when Hall got called for a block. - As Golden goes, so go the Vols.- If Stokes had been fully engaged he could have had 30 points last night. He was sleep walking and got a double/double. 1/10 at the line....ugh!- McRae was off and still had 21. Several great passes, including a couple that were dropped. - Moore played like a freshman. His minutes need to be limited. Some nice scoring, but some lapses on both offense and defense.- we need somebody else to step up...Q or Reese, somebody when McBee isn't doing it.we beat an emotionally charged Auburn team on Senior night, playing over their head. Always good to get the W.
in response to 6futurevols:
Observations from the game: - must win game and we won, but it should have never been this close - Kenny Hall has been good on offense for several games now; he needs to quit trying to draw charging fouls and instead try to block some shots on these driving guards - McBee was a big defensive liability last night. Got caught twice on off-ball screeens and gave up catch and shoot 3's, then got blown by for a traditional 3 point play when Hall got called for a block. - As Golden goes, so go the Vols.- If Stokes had been fully engaged he could have had 30 points last night. He was sleep walking and got a double/double. 1/10 at the line....ugh!- McRae was off and still had 21. Several great passes, including a couple that were dropped. - Moore played like a freshman. His minutes need to be limited. Some nice scoring, but some lapses on both offense and defense.- we need somebody else to step up...Q or Reese, somebody when McBee isn't doing it.we beat an emotionally charged Auburn team on Senior night, playing over their head. Always good to get the W.
Great insight. The biggest thing you said that I agree with is we need someone else to step up when Mcbee and Moore struggle or foul trouble catches up to us. We have a 7 man rotation right now and we need at least an 8th player. Tournaments can be tough when you have a short bench especially when you have a couple of guys who are just not playing well for the most part.
in response to jt45: Moore is just a freshman who is still learning to play at a different level. He will be fine once he settles into one position. Moore gave us 7 points tonight in a 7 point victory.
in response to jt45:
Moore is just a freshman who is still learning to play at a different level. He will be fine once he settles into one position. Moore gave us 7 points tonight in a 7 point victory.
Your right about Moore he will be better and he is young. I watched the UGA game live and he was just plain awful. It just seems lately he has been lousy when I am watching him. We need another player that can score when they jam it up on Stokes.
Our guards play like we have a big time shot blocker. Some one needs to tell them we don't.
in response to ULTIMATEVOLUNTEER: head to head doesnt matter. the committee doesn't choose a certain team over another based on their head to head matchups. c'mon man. if that was the case KY gets in over Missouri, etc etc.
in response to ULTIMATEVOLUNTEER:
head to head doesnt matter. the committee doesn't choose a certain team over another based on their head to head matchups. c'mon man. if that was the case KY gets in over Missouri, etc etc.
With both teams side by side and each looking at a twelve seed, I am afraid if I was on the committee I would take the team (Ole Miss)that beat the other team twice. Especially if they have a better conference record as well. I really think UT has some work to do to get in. I would feel better if we won the next one and had a strong showing at the tourney or at least beat Ole Miss in the tourney.
Any win is a good win this time of year. You know Mcraes arrived when he can look lousy and score 20. Really an issue with Mcbee and Moore those two guy are giving us nothing right now. Puts a lot of pressure on the bug three. I really don't think this team is NCAA worthy but with the expanded field who knows. Not sure how you can put us in of Ole Miss if they beat us twice. Lets beat Missouri and win at least one at the tourney and I think we are in.
in response to bUTch_please: Classic trap game. Road. Senior Night. Home team tired of getting mud pushed in their face. Top 25 opponent waiting at home Saturday. Empty arena on the God-forsaken plains, Bore Eagle. This team has to focus out a win tonight to prove it has some of the intangibles that make a dance worthy squad. Zo VOLS!
in response to bUTch_please:
Classic trap game.
Road. Senior Night. Home team tired of getting mud pushed in their face. Top 25 opponent waiting at home Saturday. Empty arena on the God-forsaken plains, Bore Eagle.
This team has to focus out a win tonight to prove it has some of the intangibles that make a dance worthy squad.
Zo VOLS!
It UT gets trapped twice in a row then they just are not good. I think the game will be close because it seems all of our games are close. The game does set up well for Stokes to have a big night. Will see.
in response to VolunteerLifer: As we have observed this year, the Volunteers go as Trae Golden goes. But he is an enigma, maddeningly inconsistent. And we don't have another point guard, so we must put him out there and hope. If he and CCM don't solve this puzzle of his frustrating inconsistency, next year will be like this year.
in response to VolunteerLifer:
As we have observed this year, the Volunteers go as Trae Golden goes. But he is an enigma, maddeningly inconsistent. And we don't have another point guard, so we must put him out there and hope. If he and CCM don't solve this puzzle of his frustrating inconsistency, next year will be like this year.
There is no such thing as consistency in basketball. Thats why you see so many major upsets every year. Its hard to explain how a team with zero conference wins can beat a top ten team ( happened to both Kansas and Michigan). Its the nature of the game where when things go bad thy seem to compound. As for UT and UGA, it really wasn't a big upset. This team already lost to UGA in Knoxville so to expect them to come into Athens in dominate was a little foolish on our part. To expect Golden to always score and not turn the ball over is also a foolish on our part. The struggles early have put this team in bad shape but there is still hope. Lets hope Golden and the guys hit toe positive switch going forward and that they can feel at home when they play in Nashville on a neutral court.
in response to BigOrangeFreak: I realize you have some weird crush on Golden, but you need to get over it. This guy is a Junior who consistently plays like a Freshman. And quit b1tchin about fouls. They ALWAYS favor the home team. We've had our fair share of homer games, and if you put yourself in a position to let the refs win the game, you'll often come out with a loss. Bumpin and pushin don't excuse 0-10. Oh, I'm sorry, he did hit a garbage 3 with 16 seconds left. 1-10.
in response to BigOrangeFreak:
I realize you have some weird crush on Golden, but you need to get over it.
This guy is a Junior who consistently plays like a Freshman.
And quit b1tchin about fouls. They ALWAYS favor the home team. We've had our fair share of homer games, and if you put yourself in a position to let the refs win the game, you'll often come out with a loss.
Bumpin and pushin don't excuse 0-10. Oh, I'm sorry, he did hit a garbage 3 with 16 seconds left.
1-10.
Its not a crush on Golden its reality. No player plays at his best every game. Golden has been super for 6 straight games after missing three to injury. He has a bad game and people say he should be put on the bench. If anyone watched the three games he was on the bench this team was awful. It doesn't take a genius to understand this team goes as Golden goes. I wish it were not true but the facts don't lie. Mcrae had a career high and we got spanked easily. Stokes needs to be part of the offense but we can win when he is off. Doesn't work when Golden is off. I don't think he is all SEC but he is the most important player on this team. IF we are to get to the dance (not likely be possible) we will need Golden to play good to great the next 4 or 5 games. If not, then a first or second seed in the NIT. UGH!
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